Keith Gooden
Welcome back to the Motorhome Matt podcast. I’m Keith Gooden.
Matt Sims
And I’m Motorhome Matt.
Keith Gooden
He’s the expert – I ask the silly questions on your behalf! Today, it’s where can you empty your motorhome toilet? It’s a bone of contention. It has been for a while, and Matt, you’re back to answer some questions. And he’s been asking some difficult questions of some of the powers that be, so stay tuned for that one.
It’s all brought to you with www.thatleisureshop.com. Let’s delve into the news. We’ve won a trophy, but Matt Sim has lost that trophy. So we were going to show it to you on our YouTube channel, but it’s nowhere to be found!
Matt Sims
I don’t know where it is. I’m sorry! We did win an award. We won Best Leisure Industry Podcast, The trophy – I’m sure it did arrive. I found a box and it’s empty. So I don’t know what I’ve done with it. I don’t know where it is.
Keith Gooden
When it turns up, you’ll be the first to see it! Thanks very much for that. It would have been nice to see it myself, but by the by…
Matt’s product of the week from That Leisure Shop
Keith Gooden
Your product of the week this week from www.thatleisureshop.com?
Matt Sims
Well this one’s very much on theme with the topic of the podcast this week. It’s Solbio. If you’ve not heard of Solbio, it’s a plant based toilet chemical which is so safe to use you can actually drink it. In fact, I’m on YouTube doing just that. I don’t recommend it. It tastes like essential oil. In fact, it tastes horrible. Insert a bleep there! But it’s safe enough to drink.
Keith Gooden
It must be said that you drank the product from the bottle and not from the cassette…
Matt Sims
I did, yeah! There’s a technique to using it, though, for the first time you use it. This is really important. So if you’re embarking on using Solbio for the first time, it’s really important you totally empty your toilet cassette, rinse it round and then put a dose of Solbio in it and tip it upside down and round and around to basically coat the entire cassette internally in Solbio. And then prep it with another dose ready to use.
It’s really important you don’t ever then go back to using the traditional blue or green chemical that we’re used to using, because you will affect the effectiveness of the Solbio. So it’s plant based and it’s septic tank and main sewer friendly and it’s a fantastic product. It’s on offer in our shop.
It’s typically £24.99 retail. You can buy a bottle of it or bag of it – it looks like a wine bag, actually! It’s got a tap. So it even looks friendly to drink. But honestly don’t do it, although it’s safe to. And it’s really, really effective. Loads and loads of YouTubers and influencers have been using it. They’ve been giving it to use and they are loving it. We sell loads of it in the shop. I recommend it to you.
Keith Gooden
And you’re no longer stocking products that contain formaldehyde. Those poor little ants – millions of them make this chemical. And you are saying no, no.
Matt Sims
Is that true? Ants make formaldehyde?
Keith Gooden
Yes.
Matt Sims
I didn’t know that!
Keith Gooden
Yes, absolutely.
Matt Sims
There are a lot of ants that go into some of our toilet chemicals we sell, then!
Keith Gooden
They do indeed. But you’re not stocking them anymore.
Matt Sims
No. I mean, maybe it’s contentious, but formaldehyde is not good for us humans. And it’s certainly not good for plant life or for biological life, fish and so on. So we’ve made a decision that we’re no longer going to stock those products. There are some big brand names that have formaldehyde in them. It is said that it can be carcinogenic as a chemical. And so we’ve made a decision not to stock it.
Where can you empty your motorhome toilet cassette?
Keith Gooden
It’s the Motorhome Matt podcast with me, Keith Gooden.
Matt Sims
And me, Motorhome Matt!
Keith Gooden
It’s brought to you with www.thatleisureshop.com. Let’s get into the main bit of the whole podcast this week. Where can you empty your motorhome toilet? We’ll be hearing from some of the water companies, and boy, they’ve been in the news themselves in recent months. So let’s delve into it. First of all, who have you been been talking to then, Matt?
Matt Sims
Well, a little while ago, I suggested that you could empty your toilet cassette down a toilet. So maybe not in the motorway services dragging the toilet cassette through there, dripping on the floor – that’s going to get you told off! But certainly going home and emptying it – I know thousands of us do this after a trip. We empty the cassette down the toilet.
I got absolutely thrown under the bus by many of our listeners who got in touch and said, “You absolutely shouldn’t do that. You shouldn’t be emptying your toilet cassette down the toilet.” So I thought, “Well, where should I be emptying it, then?” In a septic tank on a campsite, I get that – but then you have to be using a septic tank friendly chemical. Traditionally they’re green in colour.
So I thought, “Right, this has been my advice. I’m going to go and get advice from someone above my paygrade.” Last week on Facebook, there was a picture. Somebody had apparently emptied their toilet cassette on a flower bed in Dorset. A van had been parked there overnight. They got up and emptied the cassette. There was toilet paper strewn all over the flowers, blue liquid all over the floor and stuff and drove off. That’s just awful.
Keith Gooden
That is disgusting. And it must be kept in mind that diseases and bacteria can pass from human to human through human waste, even if it’s been chucked on the ground. You cannot, cannot, cannot do that with your waste. It’s not only anti-social, it can cause some serious illnesses.
Matt Sims
It’s disgusting. So my point is, we need to manage where we dispose of it. And I said, if you can’t empty it down a campsite disposal point, empty it down your toilet. After all, if it’s not going to a septic tank, it’s going in the main sewer, and people were saying this is bad. So I thought right, I caught up with Ian from Qualkem.
Qualkem are a long-established manufacturer of toilet chemicals. And Ian was very kind to talk to me about toilet chemical. So I asked Ian, “Can I empty the contents of my motorhome cassette into the toilet?”
Emptying your toilet cassette into a mains toilet
Ian Hill
It depends on what chemical you’ve got in there. Generally, if you’ve used the toilet and it’s full, it should be relatively safe to empty down your toilet. Some campsites will have dedicated disposal facilities, but most go into the main sewer. It’s not really any different.
I’d just avoid any products that are formaldehyde based, really. So most of the products that you would class as green, eco, septic tank safe – forget the colour of the chemical. It’s what it says on the back and what it does.
Matt Sims
Whoa, stop there. Stop there. So you said the F word – formaldehyde.
Ian Hill
I did – formaldehyde!
Matt Sims
Now, formaldehyde, is it proven… certainly, there’s a strong chance that it’s carcinogenic.
Ian Hill
There is still no hard and fast proof, but there have been lots of tests on it. And basically, I would avoid it. As a raw chemical – that’s the carcinogenic bit. But the biggest thing with formaldehyde is that it really does smell. So therefore, you’ve got to put a lot of perfume in to hide the smell. It reminds me of back in the day when I was a kid camping, and that’s all the was. And it was unpleasant to go to the loo.
Matt Sims
It was horrible!
Ian Hill
You just didn’t want to do it! And that’s formaldehyde. Formaldehyde is old chemistry. It’s old hat. I would say that most reputable companies probably have changed.
Matt Sims
They’re not using it anymore, are they?
Ian Hill
They’re not using it. There are two or three people. A couple of big players still use it.
Matt Sims
We’re not going to name them, but formaldehyde is still used in toilet chemical, isn’t it?
Ian Hill
Yeah, quite a lot. We moved away from it in the ’90s, all the way through. All the commercial stuff and all that retail caravan stuff – we’ve moved away from it. And everything that we do now is septic tank safe.
What’s the difference between blue and green toilet chemical?
Ian Hill
And it’s not about the colour – this is a great myth as well.
Matt Sims
Go on, then – blitz it!
Ian Hill
All right, blitz it – it’s not about the colour. This blue and green thing is marketing.
Matt Sims
Really?
Ian Hill
Yes, it’s marketing.
Matt Sims
But blue you can pull down a sewer – you can only use green if you’re on a campsite with a septic tank.
Ian Hill
Yes, true. If you’ve got a septic tank, you should use a ‘green’ product, but it doesn’t have to be green in colour! It needs to be green in nature!
Matt Sims
Right. Okay, so I’m talking about green in colour, but you’re saying, “No, you could use a blue toilet chemical,” provided it has what characteristics?
Ian Hill
For example, our product – we have a logo on the back of ours that says it is septic tank safe. Most of the products would usually use a biocide called bronopol, which is a more environmentally friendly product. The old F word – the more environmentally version of that is usually bronopol or a derivative of it.
It might not always say that, unfortunately, on the bottle. They might use the chemical terminology for it. But I would look for product that says it’s septic tank safe. And it doesn’t matter whether it’s blue or green – you want it to say it’s septic tank safe.
Matt Sims
But surely if you’re pouring blue toilet chemical down into a campsite waste point into a septic tank and it says, “This is septic tank safe,” but it’s blue, aren’t you going to get challenged?
Ian Hill
Possibly. That’s why we put a logo on ours to say, “Look guys, this is safe to go down here.”
Matt Sims
So make sure you’ve got the bottle to hand!
Ian Hill
Make sure you’ve got the bottle to hand. The other thing with a lot of bronopol based products is that they will go green as you use them. So as it’s going down it’s green.
Matt Sims
Ian, I have to ask the question, why don’t we just have green chemical?
Ian Hill
Blue hides a lot of things, I think is the best way to say it! And we’re all used to it. If you go to anybody and you talk to them, it’s a strange thing. Our product, for example, if you’ve got a caravan, you can use it in the flush and the waste – one bottle.
How many people come to me and say, “No, no, no, no – pink goes in the top and blue goes in the bottom,” because that’s how they’ve been educated? That’s what they know. So I suppose at some point, your answer is yes, probably we will go to maybe a green dye or educate everybody that it’s what’s in the chemical, not what colour it is.
Matt Sims
Another question we get asked a lot is, “How do you know if a campsite has a septic tank or not?”
Ian Hill
I think you’ll find if it’s in the middle of nowhere there’s every chance that it probably will have a septic tank. Simply ask. The best thing to do is to go into the reception or go to the person if it’s a little CL or a farm site and say, “Do you have a septic tank? Is it safe to put septic tank safe chemicals in?” And the best tip, I would say – don’t buy formaldehyde based products.
Is there formaldehyde in toilet chemical?
Matt Sims
We’re blitzing some myths. So formaldehyde does still exist in some toilet chemical?
Ian Hill
Yes.
Matt Sims
And avoid it?
Ian Hill
Yes.
Matt Sims
On health grounds?
Ian Hill
For everything. It’s just unpleasant. It’s old hat. It’s old history. We’ve moved on. It’s no longer the ’40s! We’re the 2000s now, don’t use stuff from 100 years ago!
Matt Sims
And so for folks who are new to this, and there’s a huge percentage of our industry who are – at this show there’s a large percentage of the footfall who have never been to a motorhome and caravan show before. For them, this is all a mystery. It’s blue, it’s green, it’s pink – and we’re always trying to help people understand it. What you’re saying is, look at the label, and if it’s septic tank friendly, ignore the colour. And actually, there’s a reason that we’re used to blue, isn’t there? Portaloos!
Ian Hill
Yeah, portaloos. Back in the ’70s, we were one of the first to put in blue dye. And basically, as the guys use the loo on site, it turns green. And that was to notify that it’s ready to empty, and it’s sort of stuck from there. And it’s gone through the caravan world exactly the same. Blue hides a lot of things.
Matt Sims
Another myth, then – green is not as effective as a blue chemical.
Ian Hill
Yes, it is a myth. Completely and utterly a myth from our experience. Our traditional cassette toilet, which is blue, has bronopol in it. A lot of our competitors have a green product, whether it’s called green, eco, organic, whatever you want to call it, that uses the same biocide with different dye or no dye at all. That’s what we’ve done with our eco product.
We put no dye in it at all. Because again, certain places don’t like dye. If you’ve got a filter system toilets, like one of these filter bed toilet systems, you don’t want dye in it because it can affect the plants.
Matt Sims
What about, Ian, when we go to France? We should be taking green, right?
Ian Hill
Yeah – eco or environmentally friendly. Septic tank safe.
Matt Sims
And on a campsite, I have been challenged when using blue chemical, because we forgot. We were on a campsite in France. And the warden came over and said, “Non, non, non,” like this. My French is rubbish. And we were told we couldn’t use the blue chemical. It had to be green. And they were not going to be moved. I mean, it wasn’t septic tank safe, but they didn’t know that. It could have been septic tank safe.
Ian Hill
And that’s the thing – there’s an icon, and we’ve got an icon on the back of our walls that say septic tank safe.
Matt Sims
One more myth, then. I’m going to put a dishwasher tab in the toilet cassette. That does the same job, doesn’t it? It’s loads cheaper.
Ian Hill
A), it isn’t any cheaper. B), why would you spend between £50,000 and £250,000 on a motorhome and then put something that’s not designed for it in the toilet?! But really, a dishwasher tablet is probably bleach based. It’s designed for cleaning dishes, strangely enough. That’s why it’s a dishwasher tablet, not for treating human waste! Pardon the pun – you’re wasting your money, really. So it’s not doing anything. It’s just a bit of perfume and a bit of detergent.
Sog toilets
Matt Sims
I’m going to ask you – and I haven’t told you I’m going to ask you this – what about SOG toilets, then?
Ian Hill
SOG toilets are great! It’s a great concept. They don’t use any chemicals. What they do is they send the smell outside to your neighbour. It’s a fan vacuum system that blows it out into the atmosphere.
Matt Sims
That’s very true. That is exactly what it is!
Ian Hill
So you don’t have the smell, but your neighbour does! But they are great. I’m not going to criticise it – it’s a great concept. Strangely enough, we get regularly asked by SOG owners, “Do you do anything that perfumes it?” So obviously it doesn’t completely get rid of the smell. While we’re on myths, that’s another really good myth.
Sadly, Matt, I have to tell you – size doesn’t matter. It’s amazing how many people I see wandering around a show with huge big five litre bottles of toilet fluid, and they get very little out of it because it’s all water. Buy a concentrate rather than water, is what I would say.
Matt Sims
Well, I didn’t know that.
Ian Hill
Yeah, there you go. See, there’s another myth for you.
Matt Sims
Loo-Tubes are the way forward, then!
Ian Hill
Well, Loo-Tubes or a smaller compact bottle, but buy concentrates. One I can think of straightaway – there was a five litre at the show last February, which was £10. You had to put 250 ml of fluid into your toilet. So doing the maths, you can work out that’s not many doses. That’s 10 doses out of a bottle at £10, where I was selling stuff that did 50 doses if you had a motorhome for £10 because you’re buying concentrate. Yeah, don’t buy water!
Matt Sims
And you make sure you use the right amount if it’s concentrated!
Ian Hill
That’s the other one. We’re blokes, we don’t read instructions. So we just go, “Well, that’ll do. Have a bit of that. That’ll do.” You could be underdosing it or overdosing it. So you could be putting £5 notes down the loo or not enough.
Matt Sims
Read the label.
Ian Hill
Read! Blokes out there, read the instructions.
Where do waste water companies suggest emptying a cassette toilet?
Matt Sims
There you have it. So I can pour my toilet cassette down the toilet, according to the chemical manufacturer. But I thought, “Right, let’s go to the waste management companies.” We got in touch with a number of wastewater companies and they gave us a statement.
Keith Gooden
Wessex Water says, “Chemicals used in many mobile toilet cassettes can be detrimental to the biological treatment at some water recycling centres. So we would not recommend discharging these into domestic drains.
If the toilet cassette has no additional chemicals, it will be the same as normal domestic waste, and can be disposed of at home. Most motorhome and caravan parks have suitable locations to dispose of toilet waste and these are designated as appropriate.”
Matt Sims
So we got their reply, and I thought, “Okay, great.” So they’re saying if there’s no chemical in it, I can pour it down the toilet. Basically, that’s just raw sewage like I would normally generate. No problem.
But the point is, my cassette is going to have a chemical in it. And if it’s not something like Solbio, it’s going to be a chemical based product. And I wanted to know, can I pour that down the toilet? So I actually went back to Wessex Water. And they just reiterated what they already said. It actually resulted in a phone call.
I rang them and said, “What you’re saying is very helpful. I understand if we put down a campsite disposal point that’s probably going to go into a septic tank. So we need to use what we traditionally call ‘green’ chemical. But what I’m asking very specifically is, can I pour my toilet cassette down the toilet when it’s got blue chemical in it?”
And they said, “No, we would advise against that. As we said, chemicals can be detrimental to the biological treatment at some water recycling centres, formerly sewage treatment works.” I went back to them again and said, “Look, thank you for your reply. Again, very helpful, but you’re advising against it. So where do I pour it? If I’m not on a campsite with a dedicated waste disposal point, what do I do with it?”
I’m not going to join that person on Facebook in Dorset and pour it in the flowerbed. What do I do with it? They would not move. It resulted in the second phone call and an argument where they just stood by this frankly half-hearted advice.
Keith Gooden
Viola forwarded us to Scottish Water who cover the whole of Scotland. They said, “Please do not empty wastewater cassettes down the toilet, particularly in rural areas. Please use designated campervan waste disposal points wherever possible. The chemicals can impact the treatment processes of smaller wastewater treatment works and the increase in volume can overload the sewer system in rural networks.”
Matt Sims
They went on to say, “If a campervan waste disposal point is not available, there is unlikely to be a problem with taking cassettes home and disposing them via toilets, especially in larger urban communities. Larger networks mean the wastewater will be diluted considerably before reaching the wastewater works. If not at home, permission should always be obtained from the owner operator of the toilets first.”
Keith Gooden
So those are some of the responses we’ve got from the water companies. We know that a lot of sewage doesn’t make it to a treatment plant and does go into rivers because that has been widely covered in the national press over the last year or so.
Does sewage get pumped into water ways?
I noticed actually in the Wessex Water statement that they are saying they’ve changed the names of treatment works to water recycling centres, not sewage treatment works. Well, we know that raw sewage is being pumped into the sea and into our inland waterways. So I’m not surprised that they’re saying, “Don’t put chemicals down it,” because it’s ending up in the environment.
Matt Sims
It’s ending up in the waterways. We see it here locally, don’t we, in the estuary heren just off Weston-super-Mare. What do we do, then? What do we do with our toilet cassette waste? If you’re using a product that’s got formaldehyde in it, as Ian says, just don’t do it. That’s what’s going to kill fish, upset the biological balance and is damaging to humans as much so probably as raw sewage is itself.
But what do we do with our toilet cassettes? The water companies just aren’t really being very helpful here. I’ve given advice in the past that it’s okay to pour it down the toilet. To be fair to Scottish Water, they did say, “Yeah, in an urban area that’s okay. In a rural area, no.”
And I’m guessing it’s because those toilets probably end up in the septic tank where you should be using green chemical. So I guess the responsibility comes to us, doesn’t it, as the user and creator of the waste?
We need to make a conscious decision about the chemical we’re buying and where we’re disposing of it. If you know you’re going to be disposing of it into a rural sewer system, then you definitely need to be using a green type product.
If you’re in a big urban built-up area, they say then pouring a blue chemical down the main sewer probably will be okay and will have limited impact. But I have to say, I’ve been very disappointed by the willingness of the water companies to give us advice that actually clarifies the position.
Keith Gooden
Thetford was approached but did not reply to us at all. We’re still waiting for their response.
Can you use cola in your grey water tank?
Keith Gooden
And we’ve got something more from Ian as well, something to do with cola, I understand.
Ian Hill
Don’t put cola down your grey water tank.
Matt Sims
Go on, tell me more.
Ian Hill
Well, it’s sugar. So yes, if you put a 2p piece in cola it’ll clean it, won’t it? So yeah, it’ll clean your grey water tank, but then it’ll leave glucose inside. It’s a nice black environment with food for bacteria. It’ll just smell again. So again, use the proper stuff. Don’t use cola!
Matt Sims
Ian, you are the mythbuster. I love it. I’ve tried cola down my wastewater tank.
Ian Hill
Did it clean it?
Matt Sims
It’s rubbish!
Ian Hill
Yeah, it is rubbish. Yeah!
Matt Sims
I must say, a load of gloop came out.
Ian Hill
Yeah, it will clean it. It will clean it, but it will just leave glucose in there and it will attract insects. Just don’t do it.
Matt Sims
Daft idea?
Ian Hill
Just don’t do it!
Matt Sims
Right. I’ve been told – I’m not doing that again!
Ian Hill
Don’t do it, Matt! Just don’t do it!
Keith Gooden
It must be said, however, a lot of these fixes have come from social media over the years. And people, you have to understand, just put these things up to get lots of little hits and say, “Oh, I’ve got 5 million people who believe me.” And a lot of these things don’t work. As Ian says there, it doesn’t work. It is designed as a drink. It is not designed as a toilet cleaner.
Matt Sims
That’s very true. I won’t be doing that again. I was told off.
Keith Gooden
And what about the diet versions? Do they work at all?
Matt Sims
I have no idea. I’m not going to be trying it!
Keith Gooden
So try to always use a dedicated disposal point – is that what you’re saying then, Matt?
Matt Sims
Well, that seems to be the advice. And that’s great when you’re on a campsite where there is a toilet cassette emptying point. Often they have a brand name. They’re often called Elsan emptying points. Elsan is just a toilet chemical manufacturer, like Hoover are a vacuum manufacturer.
But whatever chemical you’re using, I think you need to make an informed decision about it. My point is this. If you empty your toilet cassette into a toilet on a campsite, or even a dedicated waste disposal point, there is a chance it’s just connected to the main sewer. If you know it’s going into a septic tank, fine.
Use the green version of the chemical – really important. But if you have been told, “No, we don’t have a septic tank. We’re on main sewerage. There’s your toilet waste disposal point,” that is just going into the main sewer. And this is the point I was trying to make to the water companies. You’re saying, use a dedicated waste disposal point. Often they just end up in the main sewer. What’s the difference of emptying it into a toilet? Do you see my point?
Keith Gooden
I see your point exactly. But developments in the water industry over the last few years have shown to us that emptying it into the main sewer doesn’t mean it’s going to a treatment works as we’ve always presumed in the past.
And it could be it’s flushed into the river just down the way from you or even into the sea. So I suppose, and acting again as a devil’s advocate here on the podcast, motorhomers and caravanners should be taking more responsibility for what comes out of their bottoms and what they mix it with in the toilet cassette!
Matt Sims
Well, I think we do take responsibility for what comes out of our bottoms by virtue of taking responsibility for what we put in our mouths! The issue here is what we mix the content of our bottoms with chemical wise, and then where we put it. I think what I’ve taken from this is to just use a plant based green based product. Don’t use a blue one.
I think the days of blue chemical are probably numbered, and we are moving more and more toward plant based versions, which is why I was so keen to talk to Thetford because they do a green version of their chemical and they still do a blue.
In fact, they’ve just launched a eucalyptus version of their toilet chemical, their concentrate, which we sell loads of. In the shop if I’m working at the till, I will say to people, “I would consider using a green version of this or Solbio, which is plant based.”
Keith Gooden
Are the days of flush and forget behind us? Forgive the pun…
Matt Sims
Well, if you’re using green chemical, yeah, they could be. But if you’re using blue chemical, where’s it going to go? And that’s the problem, isn’t it? Once you’ve flushed you don’t know where it’s going. That’s down to the wastewater company to determine.
Get in touch with Matt and Keith
Keith Gooden
Well, if you’ve got a view on this, we really would like to hear from you. How do people get in touch, then, Matt?
Matt Sims
Yeah, we would love your comment on this and your view. You can do so at www.motorhomematt.co.uk/askmatt. If you’ve got a story to tell or an experience you want to share with us, we’d love to hear it particularly around toilet cassettes, emptying your waste or in fact anything to do with the wonderful world of motorhomes. Go and record your comment there. Hit the orange button and tell us where you are in the country. If you want to, you can submit your question via the form on the web page.
Keith Gooden
But we really would love to hear your voice and where you’re from, obviously. Share this podcast with a friend. Please do – it helps us get the word around. And what happens if people are listening on Apple or Spotify?
Matt Sims
Then you can leave us a review there. If you would leave us a five star review we would absolutely love it. It helps populate the podcast into new listeners’ feeds and it does something with an algorithm.
