Keith Gooden
In today’s episode of the Motorhome Matt podcast…
Matt Sims
We unpack UK seatbelt laws for motorhomes and campervans.
Keith Gooden
In the news, we want you to help us back British holidays.
Matt Sims
And we answer your questions on reversing camera issues, driving licence changes and using a chevron on a bike rack.
Keith Gooden
Welcome to the Motorhome Matt podcast. I’m Keith Gooden.
Matt Sims
And I’m Motorhome Matt.
Keith Gooden
Industry insights and expert advice for the world of motorhomes, caravans and campervans, brought to you by www.thatleisureshop.com and sponsored by Ripe.
Matt Sims
Now, remember to follow on your favourite podcast app, and please click subscribe if you’re watching on YouTube.
Back British Holidays
Keith Gooden
Straight into the news, and we are calling on the government to step up and back British holidays – that’s providing financial support for businesses and also helping holiday makers to get out and about in the British countryside. Once again there’s a petition, isn’t there, Matt?
Matt Sims
These are the words from Out and About Live, our friends who run MMM magazine and all the Warners shows, and they have launched this brilliant petition to help back British holidays. And you can sign their petition – just head to www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/back-british-holidays.
Keith Gooden
I’m going to repeat that. It’s www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/back-british-holidays.
Matt Sims
Don’t forget your hyphens.
Keith Gooden
You forgot your hyphen. What is MMM magazine?
Matt Sims
Motorhome Monthly Magazine.
Keith Gooden
Got you. www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/back-british-holidays.
Get tickets to Campervan Campout
Keith Gooden
Let’s talk Campervan Campout, shall we then, Matt?
Matt Sims
It’s time for our regular feature here on the Motorhome Matt podcast. It’s the Warners show feature, and this week we’re off to Campervan Campout. I’m joined by Michael from Warners and Max, and we’ll unpack who Max is in a little while. So Michael, just tell us a bit about Campout. Firstly, when is it?
Michael Douglass
It’s the second to the fourth of May, and it’s at the South of England Showground in Ardingly.
Matt Sims
The locals all call it ‘Arding-lie.’ So of course, it’s the bank holiday weekend, three nights of camping. This is a slightly different type of event in the Warners calendar to all the others. What’s different about it?
Michael Douglass
So this is definitely more of a festival than a traditional show, being that in the traditional shows, there’s any music in the evenings. There’s music all day and evening at this one, and there’s more activities going on. And it brings in the self build world of the campervan world, which you don’t have at the traditional shows.
Matt Sims
It’s far more of a music festival type event, isn’t it, than a trade show. So there are motorhomes and campervans for sale. The trading area is a little bit smaller than some of the main shows you do, but there’s a lot more entertainment going on, isn’t there – as you say, throughout the day and into the evening. Now, the Advice Centre is a big highlight of this event, the Campout Hub. But there’s other presentations going on as well. What’s happening?
Michael Douglass
Over the weekend, there’s over 40 different talks or workshops across two stages. So you’ve got the Campout Hub, which has your inspiration. On Sunday, we’ve got Creators’ Day. And then there’s the self build stage, all the talks about self builds.
And then there’s foraging workshops, there’s wellness workshops, bushcraft. Mark from Van Life Eats is there, doing cooking demos and cooking workshops, so you can get hands on and do some cooking. And there’s lots more going on!
Matt Sims
It’s an amazing event. This is one of our favourite events of the year. So Max, you’re co-hosting with me in the Campout Hub. But who are you?
Max McMurdo
Who am I? That’s a very good question, isn’t it! I’m a designer/maker. I build campervans. I design small spaces. Most famously known for designing George Clark’s caravan on Amazing Spaces. You might not like that! You’re not a fan of caravans!
Matt Sims
I was going to say the big thing that went wrong was the fact it was a caravan. But I understand it fell apart after the show was broadcast…
Max McMurdo
Yeah… I was trying to avoid that. But yes, it looked great on camera. It maybe fell apart and required a little bit of snagging, I think we call it in the trade.
Matt Sims
Snagging is a word for it. Burning would be the one I’d use. So you’re going to love the fact that at this show, there is a self build show where you’re going to get loads of hints and tips. Building stuff on wheels is your passion, isn’t it? But tell us a bit more about the stuff you’re talking about at the show.
Max McMurdo
So I’ll be talking about sustainability. That’s high on my agenda. I drive an EV van, and I’m fascinated by the future of sustainability and how we can reduce our carbon footprint. Upcycling and my love of reusing pallets and scaffold boards and reclaims materials – again, not buying new where possible.
Then I’ll also be talking about presenting and little top tips I’ve learned along the way, working with people like George and Kirsty Allsopp and Gok Wan on how to present to camera – how to create short, sharp, succinct, little sentences for camera. If you’re starting a YouTube channel or an Instagram account, there are ways that you can really make that easy for yourself.
Matt Sims
Well, I’m really excited about the Sunday, because that’s Creators’ Day. Michael, just tell us – who else is speaking on the Sunday as part of this theme?
Michael Douglass
Because there’s so many different creatives that like to come to the festival, we thought we’d put a whole day on how to improve different areas of social media and stuff. So we have Darran the Urban Motorhome doing a talk on growing YouTube. We’ve got Gemma and Campbell from Highlands2Hammocks, and some guests talking about Instagram.
And then there’s a general one about marketing and creating a brand. There’s Jackie, who is a publisher. She’s going to do a talk about storytelling and how to jot down your travels in an easy way to then turn it into a story. And there’s a workshop on planning a road trip to Europe.
Matt Sims
We’ve been recording this at the Yorkshire Motorhome and Campervan Show. There are only 200 camping pitches left at Campervan Campout, so you need to act quickly. Day tickets are also available. They’re unlimited. Use the code MATT to get £5 off, and to do that and find out all about Warners shows, head to mhmp.info/shows.
UK Seatbelt rules for motorhomes
Keith Gooden
It’s the Motorhome Matt podcast. I’m Keith Gooden.
Matt Sims
And I’m Motorhome Matt.
Keith Gooden
And it’s brought to you with www.thatleisureshop.com and sponsored by Ripe. Let’s get into the main bit of this week’s podcast – seatbelts. We’re talking about them again!
Matt Sims
I keep seeing the topic coming up on social media channels. I think there are now so many newbies in the market – we’ve discussed this in the past, but there’s a little bit of naivety around the rules for seatbelts and the laws. And I thought, you know what? Let’s do a definitive on what are the rules about carrying passengers in a motorhome or campervan. All right?
Keith Gooden
That’s fine. Let me just state for the record that seatbelt laws are there to prevent injury during an accident, and that could be a small bump, or it could be an accident which may endanger your life.
And I’m sick and tired of hearing people say, “I’m not wearing a seatbelt because it infringes my human rights.” What about the human rights of your passengers, and the human rights of the NHS staff who have to scrape you up off the ground, the police? So that’s why we’re doing it!
Matt Sims
Finished?
Keith Gooden
Yeah, sorry about the rant, but I had to do that. You’re saying lots of newbies are in the market. So let’s take it from the bottom up. So the Wearing of Seatbelts Regulations 1993, that’s what we’re talking about.
Matt Sims
Very exciting. Yeah. I was reading it again the other day prior to doing this. I think one of the problems as well is, as an industry, salespeople are guilty of making the rules grey. So it’s quite commonplace. You buy a motorhome that sleeps six – it’s only got two seatbelts in the front, but there are six beds in the back, and it’s called a six-berth motorhome.
And this creates the illusion that six people can travel in it. They can’t, and it’s when a salesperson says, “Oh, yeah, it’ll be all right, there’s plenty of room.” You know, people are not allowed to travel in those seats. So there are rules about this.
The seatbelt regulations have themselves been on a journey through time. I’m just going to unpack them and cover them off. So the original laws were introduced in the ’70s. So if your motorhome was built before 1988 – that’s very old -only the front passengers, so the driver and passenger, had to wear a seatbelt. And then post-1988 those seat belts had to be a three point, so one that goes up over your shoulder.
Keith Gooden
In that old motorhome, then, the people traveling in the rear behind the main passenger and the driver didn’t have to wear a seatbelt?
Matt Sims
Correct.
Keith Gooden
And still don’t?
Matt Sims
And still don’t, provided the motorhome was built before 1988 – or if it’s after 1988, it has to have three point belts in the front. So passengers can travel in the back of that. But we saw sense and realised that was dangerous.
So I’d still recommend not carrying passengers in the back of a vehicle that old, because they’re going to be unsafe. And then on the 20th of October 2007, the seatbelt rules changed again, where it required all traveling seats to be identified by the manufacturer and fitted with a seatbelt.
Keith Gooden
So that’s not all seats. That’s just seats that you can travel in when the motor home is driving along a road.
Matt Sims
Correct, and this is where people fall foul of the regulations. And these are regulations. This is not law. So if you’ve got four travelling seats in total, the driver, the front passenger, and two forward facing seats in the back with a seat belt, three point belt, and then you’ve got additional rear facing seats… if they’re not dedicated as travelling seats or designated as travelling seats, nobody can travel in them. And this is where the kind of grey area comes in for people. The rule is people must sit in a designated travelling seat with a seatbelt, and if that seat belt’s fitted, it must be worn.
Keith Gooden
And how is that designated? How do you know it’s a travelling one?
Matt Sims
Manufacturers have been required to put a sticker on the travelling seats. And ones that are not travelling seats usually have a picture of a person in a seat with a red line through it. So it’s like a road sign, and it has a diagonal red line through it to say, “This is not a designated travelling seat.”
Keith Gooden
The red line isn’t a seat belt.
Matt Sims
Correct. No, it’s not! Very good. It’s a red line that says, “No, don’t do it.” And this where people go wrong. So sideways seats are definitely not recommended. They are accepted to be dangerous. They are not a clever idea. I’ve seen motorhomes fitted with side seatbelts, and they’re just dangerous, simply because our spines don’t bend sideways. In an accident, we want to fold in half, forward or backwards.
So travelling seats are always forward facing or rearward facing. It’s important to note as well, a rearward facing seat can be fitted with a lap belt, so just a two point belt that goes over your lap. That’s fine.
If you want to fit extra seatbelts to a motorhome you could, and there’s a number of things to consider. One is available payload, so the ability for that motorhome to carry those extra passengers, and you must inform the DVLA that the number of designated seats has gone up or gone down if you’re taking seatbelts out.
Keith Gooden
Matt, just hang on. It doesn’t matter, does it? I’ve got the seats. I’m taking the family. I’ve got the dog as well. We get in. Most people are belted up. I don’t go too fast. You think, you know, you’re driving at 50 or 55 at the most, you know? Who’s going to know?
Matt Sims
Well, nobody would know, technically. And the issue is, if a police officer saw that you were carrying more people than they felt was reasonable for that motorhome, or you had an accident, the driver is liable then for dangerous driving, potentially. And also under Regulation 100 of the Construction and Use Regulations or the Road Traffic Act, a police officer could convict the driver. And that could involve a prison sentence if prosecuted.
Keith Gooden
Yeah, for dangerous driving – particularly if somebody lost their life or was injured. They call them life changing injuries, so you can only imagine what they’re like. So this isn’t nanny state stuff. This is about keeping people alive and making sure that you don’t end up another police or NHS statistic.
So, Matt, I’ve got my motorhome. I understand the seats that people can travel in, but, you know, we’ve had an extra child, or I’m taking my brother’s two kids with us as well. How do we get round issues like that, things which don’t affect us all the time, but which might be unusual? Do we just not put them in and not go?
Matt Sims
There are very specific rules around carrying children. If there’s no seatbelts in the back, you can’t carry a child in the back if they’re under 12 or 1.35 meters tall. And there are groups, aren’t there, for car seats. Do you remember this? If you go back in time to when your son was much smaller, groups 0, 1, 2, 3, based on the child’s weight and their age. You can find all of those guidelines online. So those apply in a motorhome as well.
And if you’re carrying a baby and they’re rear facing, turn the air bag off if they’re in the front. They have to be clipped in. That is the rule. Travelling in a motorhome without a seatbelt where there are no available seatbelts is not specifically outlawed, but it is highly frowned upon, and it is not safe, and that’s why these regulations exist.
They are guidelines there to keep us safe. I remember speaking to a friend of mine who’s now a retired police officer, and he used to say the RAF for years acknowledged that a seatbelt would save the life of a pilot in an aeroplane in the event that they ejected and they stayed in the seat. He said, “I know we don’t eject people out driving a car, but you know, why is the motorhome industry taking a different view on seatbelts? Why has it taken so long to introduce these rules?”
We know that seatbelts keep us safe, and people have adopted the rules and the guidelines very well, but they are there to protect us. Saying, “Oh, well, I can carry whoever I want in the back of my motorhome whenever I like,” is silly. It’s not clever, and you could be prosecuted if you were caught doing it.
Keith Gooden
Yeah, and even if you have a bump, a minor bump, and the police do attend, and they take a look and they see that you are not following the guidelines, they will probably prosecute you to the full force of the law. Especially if they see children, it won’t be just a quiet word, “You go on and fix it in the next three months.”
So they do take these things very seriously. Remember, even at, say, 15, 20 miles an hour, you decelerate quickly. You slam those brakes on, and not only do all your internal organs start moving forward, anybody who’s unsecured in the back, dogs as well, they’ll be flying forward, won’t they?
Matt Sims
Well, exactly, and it’s worth mentioning dogs as well. They have to be clipped in when travelling. We often see people with four belted motorhomes, four people in it, and they’ve got two dogs. You can clip the dog to an existing seat belt. You don’t have to have six seat belts. You can buy dog clips which have a dog collar or harness – that’s much better for a smaller dog – and a carabiner.
You know the thing with the little lever that climbers use? It’s perfectly acceptable to clip those around a seat belt so you and the dog are attached to the same seat belt. That’s fine. And this is about stopping the dog becoming a dangerous load in the back of the vehicle that’s loose and could fly forward and kill the passenger.
Keith Gooden
Could go through the windscreen and hit somebody in the street. I’m not joking. These things do happen. One thing I’ve always wanted to ask you about travelling with dogs – can you have little dog kennel things, crates?
Matt Sims
Yeah, you can. Yeah. And again, it’s about securing the crate. So if your dog doesn’t like travelling and they’re happier in a crate, because that’s their happy place, then put them in a crate and secure the crate and stop that becoming a dynamic load in the back of the motorhome which could come loose. So fix that to the floor, strap it down, or do something. But the dog contained in a crate is acceptable. Yeah.
Keith Gooden
I’ve got you. So have we covered everything, or is there more?
Matt Sims
No, I think that’s everything in the law. My point is it’s not grey. Common sense prevails. It really is a case of being sensible and safe. And if you’re in a seat with a seatbelt, you must wear it. And one last thing, though, just before we wrap this up, if you don’t know how many designated seats your motorhome has got, check your V5. It will say on there. It’ll say two, four or six. That’s the registration document, the red and blue thing that you get when you get the vehicle in your name. Check that has the number of designated seats on it. He’s waving one around.
Audience Q&A
Keith Gooden
It’s the Motorhome Matt podcast. I’m Keith Gooden.
Matt Sims
And I’m Motorhome Matt.
Keith Gooden
And it’s brought to you with That Leisure Shop and sponsored by Ripe.
Matt Sims
Get 15% off your insurance premium by using the code Motorhome Matt over the phone, or simply click the link in the description.
Keith Gooden
It’s our Q and A, our questions and answers, where you ask the questions, and Motorhome Matt, for it is he, the expert, who will give you the answers. And if he doesn’t know, he’ll ask somebody who does. First of all, Bruce Ryan is in Hull.
Bruce Ryan
I recently bought an Adria Matrix costing almost £100,000. I’ve had the motorhome now for two and a half months, and the reversing camera has stopped working. Having looked on the Adria forums, this is a very common problem within the Adria models, with lots of people having the same problem. Having contacted my dealer, they have said that it is a problem out of their control, and there is nothing they can do about it until Adria can supply a new camera. The earliest that Adria have suggested a new camera will arrive could be April or May. As I’m due to set off on a five-month European tour, this is not ideal. Is it reasonable to expect Adria to come up with an alternative solution when a reversing camera can be purchased from any of the online retailers for under £100? Your thoughts would be welcome. Thanks.
Keith Gooden
Thanks very much, Bruce. Well, there you go then, Matt, it’s another one about customer service, isn’t it? He’s gone to his dealer. The dealer says, “It’s nothing to do with us. It’s Adria,” and they’re saying at the soonest, he might have it fitted in a couple of weeks’ time. At the worst, it might be two and a half months’ time. They say…
Matt Sims
Bruce submitted this question to us some time near the end of February. Thank you for that. Really appreciate it. So honestly, I don’t think that’s a bad lead time for a part from a manufacturer based in Europe, because they’ve got to get that part ordered, get it to your dealer, and then they’ve got to organise getting it to you and fitting you in to fit it.
But still, nonetheless, as you say, you’ve spent £100,000. That’s a long time for a camera, and it is a known issue. You’re right. The reality is though, Bruce, it’s probably not a £100 camera on the back of your motorhome, it’s probably what’s called a Camos camera or some other make. And they are £300, £400 plus. So these are a specialist bit of kit.
You have no choice if this is going under warranty. Your dealer is going to have to wait for Adria to supply it. You could fit a cheap £100 camera for your trip if you really want the reversing camera working, and then get the right one fitted when you get back from your trip. Otherwise you are just going to have to wait it out.
It’s frustrating, I know, but this is not an Adria part. It’s supplied to them, and they have to go off and get it, and then get it to the dealer and so on. So it is frustrating, but that is the reality of motorhome ownership, that is true.
Keith Gooden
So you say it’s a known issue – it means a lot of cameras are frying, are they?
Matt Sims
I’m not sure what’s failing on them. I’ve had numerous cameras fail across all sorts of makes of motorhome, and we’ve replaced them ourselves or under warranty, the aftermarket warranty. It does strike me as peculiar. If it’s a known issue, why aren’t there boxes of them in the UK, ready to be dispatched for next day delivery?
Keith Gooden
Precisely.
Matt Sims
I don’t know the answer to that. That is a question for the manufacturer.
Keith Gooden
And we will ask that question directly of Adria. I’m sure somebody connected with them will either watch or listen to this podcast, so please let us know – if it’s a known problem, how come it takes so long to put it right in dear old Blighty? Is it because we’re not a part of the EU anymore, or is there some other reason? And who are you sourcing your components from, Adria? I can, as you say, go out and buy a £100 one and it won’t fail. These ones, £300, £400…
Matt Sims
Well, that’s not true. The £100 one will fail as well. The issue for Bruce is that he’s feeling as he spent £100,000, this should be quicker, and it should be quicker, you’re right. And this is not necessarily an Adria fault. You know, it’s not fair to throw them under the bus.
Keith Gooden
I’m not throwing them under the bus, but they’re clearly sourcing something which fails.
Matt Sims
Yes, as all the manufacturers are. The manufacturer of the camera is the problem, and they should be putting product in the UK so that there’s an available stock for the end consumer to get access to quicker. That is something that is still broken in our industry and continues to be and it frustrates us all.
Keith Gooden
Keep us posted, Bruce in Hull. Paul’s in Belfast, he says, “I’m an insulin injecting diabetic, so no C1 licence. All my short listed vans are 3,500 kilograms plus. I know you don’t have a crystal ball.” He’s got two.
Matt Sims
Steady.
Keith Gooden
“But if I wait to purchase for, say, two years, is it likely licence changes will mean a Cat B licence will allow me to drive up to 4,250 kilos? Can we also assume that if this does happen, the government will decide to increase the road tax on motorhomes that were between 3,500 and 4,250kg to the same rate as, say, 3,500 kilogram vans?”
“Just to finally add a further twist…” Another one? “I live in Northern Ireland. So a change in EU law could end up applying here, even if it doesn’t in the mainland GB.” That is very true. It might well do, Paul.
Matt Sims
So let’s just start at the beginning. So the EU parliament are reviewing the driving licence. We’ve done a whole episode on this called, “Will UK Driving Licences Change?” And I unpack what was called the fourth directive on the driving licence. It will allow a B licence to drive 4,250kg. The reason is because electric vans, or non-fossil fuel vans, EVs, can be 4,250kg on a B licence to allow for batteries and workable payloads.
And the argument is, well, if an E-van can do it, why can’t a petrol or a diesel van do it? And that’s what the EU parliament are considering, along with a lot of other changes to the driving licence. Now, we used to be part of the EU, if you remember, and so our driving licences were issued previously in the EU.
We’re not anymore, so this change would not automatically affect us. However, for Paul being in Northern Ireland, if it’s introduced in Europe, it probably would affect you because of where you are. The question then is, when is this going to be introduced? I’ve been tipped off it’s likely to be this year.
I am following this very closely, and we’ll report on it as soon as we hear for sure. Then the question comes, when would the UK government adopt it, and if at all. The likelihood is they will, we tend to follow suit with EU rules, and it would be very sensible for us to do so as we move to E-vans. So we’ll keep you posted. So yeah, I think there is a strong chance, given that you’re in Belfast, that within two years, you could be driving four and quarter tonnes on your B driving licence.
Keith Gooden
David B Jones is in Ammanford in Wales. He says, “We’re about to take delivery of a new Auto Roller 747, complete with a bike rack for four bikes. We do not have bikes, and the bike rack will never be extended. Will we therefore need to have a chevron panel attached, or can we travel without the panel? Thank you. Absolutely brilliant podcast. Diolch.”
Matt Sims
I would suggest, if your bike rack is folded up, you don’t need to fit the chevron. It only applies to items that stick out further than a tow bar. So a tow bar is an exception. You don’t have to do anything about that. If the bike rack’s folded up, don’t worry about the chevron. You could take the bike rack off. If you’re not going to use it, why keep it on there? It’s really simple to remove a couple of bolts. Have a look at it. You’ll figure it out.
Leave the rails fitted to the back of the van. Just detach the bike rack. If you’re worried, fit the chevron. There’s no harm in fitting it. But there are rules about the chevron. Firstly, if you go to Italy, they have to be metal.
The rest of Europe, they can be a foldable plastic, and the chevrons have to point to the center of the road you’re traveling on. I’ve never met anybody that’s got out and changed the direction of the chevron board when they’ve crossed the channel or crossed the channel on the ferry. But that is the rule.
Keith Gooden
There you go. So today we’ve had your tow bar sticking out your crystal balls. How about that?
Ask Matt
Keith Gooden
If people want to get in touch, what should they do?
Matt Sims
We would love it if you did. Just head to mhmp.info/askmatt. Fill in the form or record your question. Just remember to tell us where you are.
Keith Gooden
And if you’re looking for trusted brands and services, then make sure you visit the Motorhome Matt Approved directory. It’s at mhmp.info/approved.
Matt Sims
And can we ask you a little favour? If you know somebody that would find this podcast useful, interesting or maybe entertaining, please, would you share it with them, whether they’re a friend, a neighbour, whoever it might be? We would love to spread the word of the podcast just a little further and help some more people. Thank you.
