Keith Gooden
In today’s episode of the Motorhome Matt podcast…
Matt Sims
Auto Trader join us to explore the state of motorhome sales and take a helicopter view of the market.
Keith Gooden
A helicopter view! In the news, Rachel Reeves – she’s the chancellor – has intervened in the car loans case.
Matt Sims
And we answer your questions on adding bunk beds to a motorhome, future-proofing a motorhome, purchase and tips for refillable gas.
Keith Gooden
Welcome to the Motorhome Matt podcast. I’m Keith Gooden.
Matt Sims
And I’m Motorhome Matt.
Keith Gooden
Industry insights and expert advice for the world of motorhomes, caravans and campervans, and it’s brought to you by www.thatleisureshop.com and sponsored by Ripe.
Matt Sims
Now remember, please do follow on your favourite podcast app and subscribe on YouTube, sponsored by www.arobasecreative.co.uk.
Updates on the car loans case affecting motorhome finance
Keith Gooden
Straight into the news, then. Rachel Reeves, the chancellor, appears to have intervened in the car loans case. Can you just give us some background on this one?
Matt Sims
So two lenders were taken to court, and the judge ruled that the current guidelines were not robust enough, and that the consumer not only needed to be informed that they were paying a commission to the dealer or the finance broker, but they needed to be informed on how much they were paying.
The risk was that they could be backdated to some point in the past, and all these commissions that were paid that were not declared in terms of the amount could be reclaimed, because potentially the consumer could have got a better deal.
Keith Gooden
Like the misselling scandal in the banks. I’m not suggesting this is a scandal, but when you take a loan out, you pay commission to somebody. The difference between the way they want it and the way it’s been is that you never knew how much commission you were passing on to the broker or whoever for setting up this agreement. The case in court said, from now on, you must know, as a consumer, how much is going. And this has affected you recently, hasn’t it?
Matt Sims
It has, yeah. This is not just motor finance. This is motorhomes, campervans, anything with an engine, but it’s also beds, sofas, any form of consumer finance. We recently refinanced something commercially, so a business loan, so it was not regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority.
And the lender had to send me a letter declaring not just that they were earning a commission, but how much, which I found really interesting. And it was interesting to see how much they were earning out of this lending that we were embarking upon.
And it was kind of, oh, right, that’s interesting. I’d never seen that before, so I became the consumer of it, albeit a commercial business. So it’s affecting not just consumers, but businesses too. And the risk is, if this goes to the Supreme Court, which it’s due to-
Keith Gooden
No date has been set yet.
Matt Sims
Not yet. We’re hoping it’s imminent, but if the judge there rules that people can go and find out how much commission they’ve paid for the last 10 or 20 years on all the finance they’ve had, and then potentially claim it back, the market would just collapse.
And lenders would just pull out of lending, and it will just have a massive derogatory effect for the consumer in terms of choice. So who they can lend from will be end up being one or two lenders, and that’s it.
Keith Gooden
We must say, however, andI mentioned the banking scandal from a few years ago, nobody’s approaching this as if the people who have been setting up finance agreements have been acting illegally in any way.
This is about information. The court has ruled that you as a consumer should know if commission is being paid. And Matt says that you could go back and claim commissions. That isn’t a given.
Matt Sims
It’s not. The court is ruling that you know commission is being paid. That was already in place. The FCA…
Keith Gooden
It’s how much.
Matt Sims
Exactly – how much commission you are paying. That’s the minutiae of this.
Keith Gooden
Rachel Reeves got involved via the press, and you probably know about the way democracies are set up – the judiciary and the executive, the government, are apart and independent. And she was set away with a bit of a flea in her ear by one of the judges. So we’ll keep you posted and see how it goes. We did do an episode on this.
Matt Sims
We did.
Keith Gooden
What’s it called?
Matt Sims
It’s called, “The court ruling shaking up motorhome finance.” So you can go back and listen to that episode with Steve from Creative Funding Solutions, where we get a real professional expert insight into what was involved.
Keith Gooden
If you want to know more, Google is your friend.
The Yorkshire Motorhome and Campervan Show 2025
Keith Gooden
Now – it’s the big show time up in Yorkshire!
Matt Sims
We’re off to Harrogate this week for the Yorkshire Motorhome and Campervan Show. It’s a Warners show, kind of the first big show of the year for us, anyway, apart from the Outdoor Show – apart from the NEC just a couple of weeks ago. And this is not a camping show, so there’s no overnight staying, but it’s a fantastic weekend.
We’re really excited about it. That Leisure Shop are there. We will have a stand selling outdoor furniture, beautiful stuff that some of you may have seen us selling at the NEC. We’re taking all of that stock up to Yorkshire, and I’m running the advice center, so I’m hosting it. Really excited about that. 18 free talks across the weekend.
I’m doing two of them, doing a really fun talk with the lovely Peter Vaughan from Out and About Live. We’re talking our favourite motorhome accessories. We did it once before last year, and it was chaos. It was great fun!
We do have a laugh when we do it. So it’s all our favourite top accessories for your motorhome trips. And I’m also doing a talk on going to Europe in a motorhome. I’ve done it before. You may have seen it before, but it’s on the changes that are coming this year, and possibly in 2026.
Keith Gooden
That’s where he gets the glove puppets, Pierre and Sanchez. There you go. Anyway…
Matt Sims
There’s no puppets, I promise. Only this one.
Keith Gooden
No offence to anybody French or Spanish, by the way, just in case – don’t write in. So you’ve got the stand – come along and say hello! Matt will be there some of the time, but as you’ve heard, he’ll be doing some talks too.
Matt Sims
I will, yeah. Find out about all the Warner shows we’re doing at mhmp.info/shows.
Keith Gooden
mhmp.info/shows.
Save on your insurance premium with Ripe
Matt Sims
You’ve heard me talk a lot about Ripe insurance here on the Motorhome Matt podcast, and one of the things I love about them is the bunch of people behind the brand. I’m delighted to be joined by one of them today. This is Mel, head of underwriting operations at Ripe.
Melissa Savage
Hi, Matt.
Matt Sims
Mel, I get asked a lot about the background of Ripe. When was it actually formed?
Melissa Savage
Ripe started out over 20 years ago. We actually started by insuring people’s passions. So things like cycling – we do over 900 different sports, golfing… the natural step for us was to go into motorhomes and caravans and all those leisure types of policies, really.
Matt Sims
Now, I understand that the motorhome market for you is your fastest growing market right now, for which, of course, I take full credit! But tell us a little bit about what you cover in the campervan conversion market particularly.
Melissa Savage
Conversions have just got so big over the last few years, and we’re seeing it more and more, not just through our customer base, but also through your listeners, from the questions that we get as well. A lot of people are struggling to get cover for conversions nowadays. And so, you know, there’s some things that you can do to make sure that you are getting the right cover for you.
One, make sure that all the dangerous bits are done professionally, your heating and electrics, things like that. The main thing is, we want to make sure that everything’s safe, as do you. The other side of it is modifications.
Some insurers will want to know any which way, whatever you do with that camper. At Ripe, all we need to know about it is, does it affect your performance, your braking, or your suspension? If you’ve just changed your bumpers or your side panels, just put it in the value of your motorhome, and it’s covered.
Matt Sims
So there’s lots of things that actually the policy holder doesn’t need to tell you about.
Melissa Savage
Correct. When it comes to modifications – as I say, braking, suspension or performance, let us know. Otherwise, just put it in the value.
Matt Sims
Love it. And how many policies have you got on book at the moment?
Melissa Savage
We’ve got over 370,000 policy holders currently, and they are all serviced by our contact center up in Manchester, which is great. So we’re dead easy to get hold of. But one of the main things that we’ve tried to do is make sure our online journey is easy to understand as possible. So if you need anything, whether it’s to purchase a policy or just information, it’s so easy to go online 24 hours a day and have a look at that.
Matt Sims
And I can vouch for that in my own experience. So if you’re looking for an insurance quote, remember, you can get 15% off your renewal with Ripe. Just quote Motorhome Matt when you ring or click the link in the description.
Is the motorhome industry in decline?
Keith Gooden
It’s the Motorhome Matt podcast with me, Keith Gooden.
Matt Sims
And me, Motorhome Matt.
Keith Gooden
And it’s brought to you by www.thatleisureshop.com and sponsored by Ripe. So let’s get into the main bit of this week’s podcast – is the motorhome boom well and truly over?
Matt Sims
This is a big topic, and there’s all sorts of views and opinions on this. I was genuinely intrigued to try and get some facts applied to it. Now, I love data. Data doesn’t lie. If you can pull the factual data, then you really can start to understand some true insights as to what’s going on.
I spoke to Auto Trader about the data they hold on our industry because I was intrigued as to what their view of it was based on their data. And I was delighted when they said, “Yeah, we’re happy to share this.” Because getting a big corporate like that – Auto Trader is a household name, isn’t it? You’ve heard of them.
Keith Gooden
Indeed I have.
Matt Sims
They’ve been around forever, and getting a corporate like that to come on a podcast like this is no mean feat. So I was very grateful and very excited when Tom Roberts was put up. And Tom’s got an amazing job title. He is the bikes, leisure and commercial vehicles content marketing manager.
Keith Gooden
I can tell you one thing about poor Tommy – he’s not had a pay rise in a while. Instead of giving people the pay rise, companies like to give you a longer title.
Matt Sims
You should see his business card. It’s like a landscape strip. So that’s his role. And Tom has an amazing background in vans and commercial vehicles, and has been at Auto Trader a little while.
He is responsible for the content marketing side of Auto Trader, and particularly the leisure side. So it was great to have a chat with him. Just for the sake of our listeners, can you give us a big picture view of Auto Trader and kind of some of your numbers?
Tom Roberts
Yeah, absolutely. So Auto Trader is a name that might not necessarily need the most fanfare of introduction. We’re sort of a UK Institute. It’s a place where people come and go to speculate on all sorts of automotive vehicles, from cars all the way up to heavy goods vehicles, agricultural and, of course, camper vans, motorhomes and caravans and any other type of leisure vehicle that you could possibly think of.
We’ve been around for a very long time. We are considered to be the UK’s number one marketplace and destination for people speculating and buying vehicles of all types. When it comes to caravans, campervans and motorhomes, our site is experiencing around 2.2 million monthly visits, and that was our figure for 2024.
Matt Sims
So that’s just leisure vehicles – 2.2 million visits a month.
Tom Roberts
Every single month. And these are unique visits.
Matt Sims
Oh, wow. Okay, so not repeat visits – unique people.
Tom Roberts
These are unique people.
Matt Sims
That’s a lot of people.
Tom Roberts
It’s a lot of people, which does, I think, show that – as we are the number one marketplace, it’s the place where people come to compare prices, to compare vehicle sizes, to take a look at the market value of these vehicles, and also just to have a good old browse. I mean, these types of leisure vehicles are the sorts of vehicles that everyone likes to think that they can own at some point. And I like to think that our marketplace makes that a reality.
Matt Sims
In 2024, how many motorhomes, campervans, caravans… because you have to kind of combine them, don’t you? You can’t split them out. But how many were listed in ’24?
Tom Roberts
So in 2024 we had 74,568 caravans, campervans and motorhomes listed on the site. Take that with 2.2 million monthly viewers of those vehicles, and you can see it’s quite a big and comprehensive place to go for that sort of vehicle.
Matt Sims
Broad maths, that’s 30 to one.
Tom Roberts
Yeah, absolutely. And the behaviour of customers and interested parties when they come to the Auto Trader platform, they’re using it as a place to research. It’s not just somewhere you go to have a quick look at a price and then you go, okay, righ, well, it’s about how much I thought it was.
You have people coming onto the site. You have people taking a look at the vehicles that are on offer. Then they go to our review section. They have a read of the reviews of these vehicles to make sure that, you know, they’re the one that they want – the one that will work for their use purposes.
Matt Sims
I found this fascinating, and I think listening to or watching this, you’re going to find it fascinating, too. So in ’24, kind of post pandemic, people have recovered from that huge surge in the motorhome industry where everyone wanted one.
We’re kind of back to a sense of normality. Arguably, most people that had bought one short term and then did that holiday and then went back to Benidorm, wherever they went, were kind of out of it. So we’re back on a sort of normal plane. Mid ’24, tell us about these survey results. This is fascinating.
Tom Roberts
In the middle of last year, Auto Trader was taking a look at the rise in the amount of people that were viewing adverts on motorhomes and caravans and campervans. In fact, we were doing this across all of our product categories, and what we noticed was that over the last five years, up to that point, there had been a 59% increase in the advert views on motorhomes, caravans and campervans on Auto Trader.
So that’s huge. You’ve got a 60% increase, almost, of people looking for these things. So we decided it was time to put some research out into the field to kind of get an idea of what consumer intent was like around the purchase and acquisition of these vehicles, and some of the really interesting headline figures that came out of that research were, for example, one in five Brits are already planning a motorhome or caravan holiday over the next 12 months.
Matt Sims
Hang on, one in five Brits?
Tom Roberts
One in five Brits.
Matt Sims
That’s a big number.
Tom Roberts
It is! So 20% of the UK’s population that can afford and can indeed run these vehicles and drive them and have a valid licence are in the field already wanting to take these types of holidays. So that obviously means that right up into summer of 2025 you’ve got these people who are intending to do that, and may even already have done that up to this point.
Matt Sims
Wow, that’s really exciting. So I’ve been kind of chastised a little bit recently because I put some content out just a few weeks ago where I said, I think our industry – I was looking at statistics from the USA, and I believe our industry is thriving. And not every motorhome dealership or small business sees that right now.
You know, they’ve still got the gas bill, the electric bill to pay, the wage roll has to happen, and it’s the winter still. You know, early spring – times are tough. You know, we’re finding it difficult. But what you’re saying is, despite this current economic climate and this alleged spending freeze, you’re saying that we’ve got 20% of the country looking to do a motorhome holiday.
Tom Roberts
Absolutely. And indeed, 22% of the same people that were asked, so the same one in five, were also saying that the cost of living crisis itself has actually made these types of holidays even more attractive.
Matt Sims
So the perception is, then, that a motorhome, campervan or caravan holiday is great value.
Tom Roberts
It is absolutely great value, and it also returns you to this wonderful lifestyle of almost having kind of unparalleled freedom. You can hitch up your caravan, you can get into your motorhome or your campervan. You can drive anywhere in the UK or overseas, just getting your vehicle onto the Eurostar or a ferry, and you can enjoy yourself wherever you want to go. It’s basically taking your home with you.
Matt Sims
You can absolutely. I know that!
Tom Roberts
You know that better than most!
Matt Sims
That’s right, yeah. But I find it fascinating that 20% of the people you surveyed, which you can extrapolate out into the whole of the UK…
Tom Roberts
Yeah, let’s do that!
Matt Sims
But that’s really encouraging. That’s really encouraging. And you know, we hear the rhetoric that prices of campsites have gone up. And they have, they’ve gone up, and people are blaming campsites for being too expensive and so on. But that would not align with this data, and the data doesn’t lie. That’s what I love about data. You know, there seems to be a boom and a growing interest in this marketplace, which is very encouraging.
Tom Roberts
Absolutely. And I think what’s important to always think about when it comes to the rise in vehicle price, or the rise in how much it actually costs to go to a campsite, for example – if you’re a new customer looking at these vehicles, how much something used to cost doesn’t, I guess, really matter as much.
You’re looking at the price now and you’re going, “Oh, okay, so it might cost me X amount to go and pitch up, but that’s my water. That’s my electricity. I’m getting all my own home creature comforts that I’m taking with my own vehicle.” What’s not to like about that?
You know, again, you’ve got, like I say, one in five Brits going, “I want to go on these holidays. I’ve got actual, clear intent to go on one of these holidays.” And so the simple fact of the matter is that if you’ve got people who want to do these things, they’re going to need the vehicles to do it in. So that spells good things for the market.
Matt Sims
It does, yeah. And you’re right. We talk a lot about pricing going up – we’ll talk about this a bit more in a minute. Is it a bubble we’re experiencing and is it going to burst? I don’t believe it is. So tell us, what else did your survey query people on?
Tom Roberts
Well, we queried them on all sorts of things. So you know, nice signs of the growing popularity of motorhomes and caravan holidays, reporting that around a third of Brits, 32%, said that this type of holiday appeals to them.
So not only have you got 20% of them going, “Oh, I’m definitely going to do this,” you’ve actually got 30% of them going, “You know what? I’d actually quite like to do this.” So the intent is on a sliding scale with everything else. You’ve got 21% saying they would like to go on the holiday.
You’ve got 20% saying they’re already planning one. So that’s the bit that I always go to. When we actually asked people last year, you’ve actually got 20% of them going, “Well, I’m already planning to do this.” It’s not just, “I’d like to do it.” They’re actually going to do this.
Matt Sims
And I don’t suppose you know how many of those already own a motorhome or are looking to buy one?
Tom Roberts
Sadly, I don’t know that.
Matt Sims
No, that’s drilling right down. That would be fascinating.
Tom Roberts
That would be fascinating, and definitely next time we do some qualitative research like this – because I think it’s only natural we saw some really good success and really interesting figures coming out of last year’s research. It only makes sense that we’re going to do it again this year. And I think in that case, we’re going to be able to drill, I think, more far more effectively into that data.
Matt Sims
I’d love to get involved with the planning of this survey next time, because there’s some big questions there around,”Okay, so you’ve got intent to do it, but do you own a campervan yet? And what are you planning to spend on one? And when are you planning to buy it?” And I think as an industry, we’ve seen lots of changes around timescale to purchase.
So our industry typically sees a huge uplift in March, April into the summer, when people buy a campervan or motorhome. And I’ve spoken to a number of people in the trade that say, well, they’re just going to buy it when they’re ready.
That might be December. Might be January. And we saw dealers at the recent show, which you came to in Birmingham, who were there for the first time because they believed that February is a good time to be trying to sell a motorhome, because people have an appetite, and that’s quite new. So it would be interesting to understand more about this data and dig into it a bit deeper. Maybe next time.
Tom Roberts
It’s interesting you say about marketing months in advance of an event. I mean, I’m going through some interesting stuff with estate agents at the moment trying to sell a house. And they always say, if you put your house on the market today, and someone comes to you the day after and says, “I want that house,” you’re not actually going to be moving out of that house for three or four months.
So you know that these things are going to take time. You know that acquisition will take time. So you also can extrapolate back and go, anyone who’s in market right now and goes, “You know what, this summer, I think I’d like to do my motorhome and campervan holiday that I’ve been planning to do for a while,” they’re going to start looking now.
Of course they are. They know that these things might take time. It might be that the research phase might take a bit of time, but they might also want to save for a few months just to get a bit more money under their belt so they’ve got money for the deposit on whatever finance deal or whatever deal they might be going through for acquisition. So yeah, they take time. They speculate. They use platforms like Auto Trader to do so.
Matt Sims
You also found out a little bit about complementary activities from the audience you surveyed.
Tom Roberts
Well, with the cost of visiting restaurants and hotels rising 6% year on year in the UK, obviously things are getting a bit more expensive. The effect of inflation is obviously having an impact on people’s wallets.
So the Brits in general, their interest in going on a motorhome or caravan holiday has actually increased again by a fifth since the start of the cost of living crisis. These holidays are being seen by the audience for these vehicles as a more cost effective way to have long term holidays.
So every year they’re going, “Well, I could go to a hotel, I could go overseas. I could go on a package holiday, or I could invest the money that I might have invested over the next five years on those types of holidays into a leisure vehicle, something that I and my family can get into, two, three times a year. And we can go where we want to go on our terms, taking all of the things that we know and love.”
Matt Sims
I’m seeing a trend where people are doing that, 4, 5, 6 times a year and having the foreign holiday as well, because they’re holding out for a deal to go abroad. Because they are there. I mean, foreign holidays via a plane – in my experience, trying to cost them up for my kids, they’re just ridiculous.
They’ve tripled in price compared to last year or the year before. Suddenly it’s become very expensive to go to Spain or Corfu or wherever we might choose to go. And I have to say, you think, well, let’s just do the motorhome holiday instead, then, or let’s stay in this country, which is I find a lot less hassle than flying.
Tom Roberts
And it’s very interesting, actually, when you put that against what might be perceived as a higher acquisition price for a motorhome, for example. Say a decent motorhome is £75,000, you know, or more.
Let’s just say 75 grand. You divide that up into five years over the amount of money that you might have spent on a holiday. And I think you sort of see that big upfront price on a vehicle, and you think, “Oh, I’m going to have to pay that all in one go.” But ultimately, you’re spending the same amount of money that you would have done on multiple holidays a year, but you’re doing them on your own terms, in these lovely environments.
Matt Sims
That takes us, then, onto this topic. I spend £75,000 on a vehicle now, but what’s it going to be worth in three or five years’ time? So the cost of ownership, the total cost of ownership is going to be how much? Now, people are worried that this is a price bubble and it’s going to burst, and I really don’t see any evidence that it’s going to burst.
I think the bubble is under pressure right now. I don’t actually think it’s a bubble. I think pricing is under pressure because there’s overstock. So dealers have got lots of motorhomes in stock. So I think right now you’re going to see a big uplift in vehicles for sale when you survey this again, and we’re seeing good discounts on 2024 models that are still for sale because the cost of living crisis has caused a slowdown in purchase speeds.
But the topic of pricing and future pricing – I know you don’t have the ability to forecast and look into the future, but if we look back to, you know, 2018, 2017, we saw vehicles retailing for £50,000 that are now retailing for £75,000.
The evidence you’ve got, though, is the demand. So you can’t predict the price, but what’s your prediction for the demand? You’ve seen growth. What do you think is going to happen with demand? Because if the demand keeps growing, that will secure the price and the new normal will stick.
Tom Roberts
We would probably base that prediction on what we see in terms of the amount of adverts that go onto our platform and into the marketplace, and also, therefore, marrying it up with the survey results that show intent. And obviously those survey results do show clear intent, because they were from midway through last year.
Matt Sims
Overwhelmingly.
Tom Roberts
We’re still seeing that intent. It is going to play out still over the next six months of this year. Throughout 2024 as I said at the beginning, 74,568 caravans and motorhomes advertised on Auto Trader.
That was 14% up from the 65,000 that we had advertised in 2023, which was 13,000 more than the 51,000 that we had advertised in ’19. So you can see that there’s been quite a significant jump. Obviously, with the pandemic and demand, it’s difficult for us to use those as reliable figures, because it was such a strange time for everyone around the world and every industry that was selling anything.
Matt Sims
But cynically, I suppose we could say, “Yeah, but in 2021 and 2020 everyone and their dog went out and bought a motorhome because it was the only holiday we could have, and now your numbers are just growing because they’re dumping that stock back into the market because they’re back off on a plane somewhere else.”
And that may be true, and there’s there certainly is an element of that. But conversely, the data suggests that the demand is growing, and therefore there are more and more motorhomes being registered new, and that actually the market is growing. The marketplace is growing. There are more and more motorhomes. There’s over half a million, I think, registered on the road. So actually we’re booming as an industry.
Tom Roberts
100%. And when you hear those figures, I have to sort of stress something about the Auto Trader marketplace. It sometimes suffers from the perception – I say sometimes. It sometimes suffers from the perception that it’s used vehicles, that this is all secondhand. But no, no, this is the amount of new and used that we have.
And we’ve brought on new partners, we’ve brought on new dealers that are listing their stock. So, you know, the fact that we’ve got more people coming to our marketplace to advertise more stock indicates, to me, alongside that intent that we’ve seen from the British public that leisure vehicles are arguably getting stronger and stronger every year.
Matt Sims
I would love next time we do this survey and digging into the results, I’d love to know what percentage of the vehicles listed are new, and interestingly, how long they’re in stock.
Tom Roberts
Absolutely, and I think again, you see these figures climbing up. And maybe if a cynical hat was being worn, you might think, oh, maybe that might be stock that’s been on there for yearst. But I tell you, items and units that don’t stay on the Auto Trader marketplace for years. You don’t have vehicles sitting on the Auto Trader marketplace for two years until they get sold.
You know, this is a constant up and down. This is a constant process where vehicles go up, they might go on for a couple of months, but then they’re sold. They’re taken down. New adverts come to replace them. New product comes to market. And that’s very much the way we’ve seen it with leisure vehicles. At the moment, we’ve got more companies on board selling more product.
Matt Sims
I’d love to look back in a year’s time, though, and understand a bit more of this data. Perhaps we can do that together in a year’s time. A nerd fest!
Tom Roberts
Your request to get involved I think would be absolutely fantastic.
Matt Sims
I’d love to.
Tom Roberts
And considering this kind of platform, I think it’d be absolutely perfect.
Matt Sims
So I want to tackle the elephant in the room, right? The electric vehicle move. Now, some of the audience are going to go, “Oh no, not again.” It’s coming. We’re in the ZEV mandate. It’s rolling out. And by 2035 there’ll be no more brand new diesel vehicles manufactured – vans, particularly I’m interested in.
Now your background, Tom, is in vans. You spent years in the van world before you went to Auto Trader. So I understand you’re not going to give an Auto Trader perspective on this. I’m not expecting you to. I want Tom’s view of the world on this.
As somebody with an expertise and a background in vans, and someone who still takes a big interest in E-vans, we need them to donate to us to become motorhomes. I know that’s obvious, but the move to electric causes fear and uncertainty and doubt. FUD, it’s often called. It makes people worry about buying a diesel motorhome now.
Tom Roberts
Well, it’s what we see in the light commercial vehicle sector, probably, I think, in more stark contrast than anywhere else at the moment. So in the light commercial vehicle sector, you’ve got big fleets who are doing an absolutely fantastic job of electrifying their fleets. You know, 10 years out from this deadline.
It appears, I think, to probably a lot of people out the windscreen as a wall that we’re all approaching in 10 years’ time. So that’s fair enough. So you’ve got lots of fleets who are adopting electric vehicles. They’re bringing them on wholesale. I’m looking at companies like Amazon, I’m looking at Royal Mail, I’m looking at DHL – electrification on an unprecedented level.
They’re getting used to these vehicles. They’re finding out how they work, the quirks, what it means to their supply chain and their ability to actually be a logistics business with vehicles that require longer times to refuel. They need more vehicles on fleet to rotate them in. But then you’ve got the medium and smaller businesses, and it’s that end of the marketplace that I think you can probably isolate the feelings of people being asked to adopt electric vehicles the best.
The typical view of a small business, a single van operator when they are faced with electrification and swapping in what they know and love in their diesel van for an electric van is immediately they go – it’s going to cost more to run it. It’s not going to carry as much. I’m going to have more downtime. They have this perception that they’re driving 300 miles a day when they’re actually driving 30.
So they don’t need a vehicle that has that kind of range. The upfront cost is offset by the fact that their refueling prices are going to be lower. You’ve got a lot of fears that are not necessarily being answered in the best way.
And I think it’s going to take the next 10 years of improving ranges, improving technology, improving education from the government and from the bigger fleets that have adopted these vehicles to help change the minds of the smaller businesses that immediately their one concern is, well, my bottom line is going to be completely different. I’m going to be paying more for these vehicles.
That’s where all the problems are going to come. So I think you translate that over into leisure vehicles. And at the moment, we’re in a situation where there’s barely anything in terms of electrified product.
But that doesn’t really matter, because we’ve got 10 years until diesel vehicles are going to stop being made. So we’ve got 10 years to improve our infrastructure, to improve the education about how to operate these vehicles, 10 years for the technology to improve to the point where ranges and payloads are better, the ability to workshop these vehicles into decent motorhomes and camper vans improves.
So actually, right now, if you buy an electric vehicle of any type, you’re probably still going to consider yourself and be considered as an early adopter. You’ve got 10 years until it’s really worrying.
Matt Sims
So what would you say to a consumer who’s looking at buying a diesel motorhome, new or used, now? Are you saying, “Don’t worry about it?”
Tom Roberts
It’s 10 years away. Enjoy it. Because if you’re going to sit in it and you’re going to love it and enjoy it for the next five it goes on to the marketplace, it goes into the used market, it’s going to be running great, hopefully, and as well as it ever has, even just five years down the line, depending on how long you drive it and how well you look after it. So enjoy it.
It’ll go onto the marketplace, and I think you know, it’ll have held a significant proportion of its value that you would have paid for it start with. So whatever you make from the proceeds of selling it on in five years’ time, you’ll be able to maybe get another one and enjoy it. It feels like the 2035 deadline is a brick wall and the second we hit 2035 you’re not going to be allowed to drive a diesel anymore. That’s not the case.
These vehicles are going to be being driven on the roads for years to come, and it’s only really when it becomes financially prohibitive or there are some kind of punitive measures put in place to stop people from driving internal combustion engine vehicles that I think you really need to worry.
Now, look, I would encourage people to start looking at electric vehicles, because they are the future, but if right now your primary concern is, I would like to get a motorhome for a good price and I want it to be diesel, now’s the best time to do it, because you’ve got time. You’ve got time to enjoy it. So why not?
Matt Sims
Love that. Absolutely, why not? So then, nervously, in five years’ time I come to sell it, we’re getting ever closer to this deadline – you’re right. It does feel like a brick wall. What’s going to happen to values?
So let’s say in eight, nine years’ time, so a year out from when new diesels are no longer allowed to be made, or very few. I think it’s 2035, zero, isn’t it? So there won’t be any new diesel vehicles. What’s going to happen to the value of my now nine-year-old diesel motorhome?
Tom Roberts
I’d imagine that by that point, eight to nine years from now, we’ll be achieving the fabled price parity. I think the amount of diesel vehicles on the road that are new, that are being manufactured and being put onto the marketplace, will be so low that their prices will have sort of almost matched, will have met in the middle with electric. Electric prices will come down. I think diesel vehicles will have slightly gone up a bit, because there’s less of them in the field. So I think their values will still be strong.
Matt Sims
You use that term, “Price parity.” It was a phrase given me by Paul Kirby. Paul is the electric van man. He’s the expert on this too. And he said to me, “I predict price parity.” And I said, “What do you mean? Explain that.”
So I take this same view that I’m quite happy owning a diesel motorhome, probably for the rest of my lifetime. It may be I get into an electric motorhome at some point. But if you’re listening to this or watching this and you’re thinking, well, I’m a bit nervous about buying a diesel, what we’re both saying is, don’t worry about it. The value is going to hold strong.
The demand is booming. 20% of the UK population want to go and have a holiday in your motorhome. Well, maybe not all of them, but there’s a demand, and the demand seems to be growing and booming.
Tom Roberts
Absolutely. 10 years down the line, technology in electric vehicles is going to improve. I mean, who knows what that first shining beacon of electric motorhome or campervan technology is going to look like?
Already we’ve got vehicles built on the, for example, the new Ford Transit Custom. You’ve got campervans that are already being made on the Ford Transit Custom platform. That is an electrified platform. It’s a hybrid platform.
Matt Sims
Well, you saw us test drive the E-endeavor from Bailey as a prototype. Yeah, that’s not gone into production yet, but it was interesting that Bailey took it that far to actually registered a van on the road that was all electric.
Tom Roberts
It’s a proof of concept. It’s going to work. I mean, it’s where we’re going to be eventually. But right now, we’re 10 years away from the deadline that these vehicles are not going to be allowed to be made. So if you want to get one, I would say, get one. I mean, there’s plenty on the Auto Trader platform. Head to the marketplace. You’ll see what I mean!
Keith Gooden
That’s Tom Roberts. He’s the bikes, leisure and commercial vehicles content marketing manager at Auto Trader. So it seems there’s a huge demand, and the industry is booming.
Matt Sims
Well, it would seem there’s huge demand. The stats they have are really encouraging. I was very excited to hear about the surveys they’ve done in the past. And since that interview, Tom and I had a chat, and I am going to get involved in future surveys they do. And I’m really keen to drill into the data a little bit more, particularly around motorhomes and campervans, and trying to split that out. So we’ll see what we can turn up next year.
Keith Gooden
But you’ve got personal experience of this, because you sell pre-loved motor homes, don’t you?
Matt Sims
Yeah, we do. We do a lot of brokerage where someone’s looking to sell a motorhome, and we broker it for them and sell it for them. So take all the hassle out, and we use Auto Trader.
Keith Gooden
Just for someone who might be listening for the first time, sorry to interrupt you, but brokering means that you sell it on somebody’s behalf and take a commission.
Matt Sims
So it remains yours until we sell it. So the catch with brokerage is you don’t get paid for it until we’ve sold it, and we ask you to continue to insure it, because it’s your asset, and we will find the buyer.
We take care of all the advertising, all the viewings. We can deal with finance. We can deal with a part exchange, the security of funds coming to us. You know, having someone turn up on your front door and start kicking the tyres, there’s all sorts of fraud going on when people are selling privately. Do you know people actually getting in the back on a test drive and pouring a glass of water on the floor and then after the test drive saying, “This motorhome is full of water?”
Keith Gooden
You always get wide boys and girls, don’t you, in any business, and you’ve just got to keep a look out for it. And I suppose, by brokering with somebody like you or somebody else who’s got a good reputation, then… you see all this nonsense, don’t you? You know about it firsthand. And so for a commission, you can sell somebody’s motorhome with them and give them peace of mind.
Matt Sims
The big thing we do is agree a fixed return with the seller. So we discuss with the owner how much we’re going to return them when it sells. So you know exactly what’s going to happen when it’s sold, and we also agree with them what we’re going to advertise it for. So when they see the advert, it’s not a shock. We’re a business. We’re trying to make some money here as well.
There are costs, of course, when we sell a motorhome, VAT on the margin, the servicing if we have to do that, any preparatory costs. We just sold a motorhome that needs a cam belt, it needs a set tyres. And we’ve had a conversation with the seller about that, and we’ve together worked out what they’re going to earn from it, and they’re happy, and off we go. So it’s a really, really good and easy service.
We don’t sell that many motorhomes compared to some dealers. I am dead fussy about what we sell, and they are hand picked by me and the team. So we are very particular. So if you’re thinking of selling your motorhome, very happy to have a chat with you about it. We tend to go newer, so less than 10 years old. That’s where we like to be.
But if you’ve got a motorhome you’re thinking of selling, then do get in touch. I’d be very happy to have a conversation about it. And if you’re looking to buy a motorhome, go and check out our website, www.motorhomeholidaycompany.com, or look at us on Auto Trader, where we list everything for sale.
Keith Gooden
So what would you say to someone looking to buy their very first motorhome? Because it’s buying season, isn’t it?
Matt Sims
It is now. Yeah, do it. Don’t wait. People wait until they’re going to retire. And I hear this all the time – oh yeah, we’re going to get a motorhome. And there’s this perception we’ve got to wait until we’ve got all the time in the world to use it, which is fair enough, but given my story of the last year, carpe diem, seize the day.
You just don’t know what’s around the corner. A motorhome is a brilliant way of getting a quick and short, sharp escape from the humdrum of your daily routine. I love going away for our weekends in the motorhome, and it feels like we’ve had a week away, even one or two nights.
It’s a brilliant way of staying sane, frankly. It’s so good for your mental health, so good for your wellbeing, and it gets you out and about. It does mean, if you buy one, the DIY jobs at home will never get done.
Keith Gooden
Speaking again as, three years into this podcast, who knew nothing about motorhomes before we started the podcast – my background was journalism and presentation. I’m devil’s advocate. You might have noticed. I mean, I’ve never met such a committed, pleasant group of people in my whole puff.
Matt Sims
Oh, that’s lovely. I love that.
Keith Gooden
Apart from you.
Matt Sims
Apart from me! We are passionate bunch, I have to say. And it is an absolute joy and delight to be in this industry. You’re right. Even the people behind the scenes are just as lovely. It is a lovely bunch.
Audience Q&A
Keith Gooden
It’s the Motorhome Matt podcast. I’m Keith Gooden.
Matt Sims
And I’m Motorhome Matt.
Keith Gooden
And it’s brought to you with www.thatleisureshop.com and sponsored by Ripe. It’s time for our Q and, the questions and answers, where you ask the questions, and Matt, the expert, he gives the answers. First of all, Ashley Pryce is in Manchester.
Ashley Pryce
Hi Matt, hi Keith. Now, I’ve been looking at buying motorhomes for myself and my family. I have a daughter who’s eight and two boys – one’s 13 and one is 14. We need quite a big motorhome for the plans that we’ve got, and we’re struggling to find the correct layout with rear bunk beds for the boys.
Now, I’ve been looking at converting an existing setup from a U-shape layout or a fixed bed at the back. Now, is it possible to take out any of those layouts and have bunk beds installed professionally, or not professionally, right? Keep up the good work.
Keith Gooden
So Ashley is asking about bunk beds for the kiddywinks!
Matt Sims
Yes, a valid point. When there’s five of you trying to find the layout with the right sleeping arrangements can be a challenge. They do exist, motorhomes with bunk beds, but generally only two bunk beds at the back.
We actually did this to an American RV years ago. We took the rear lounge out. It was a very old layout, and we fitted IKEA bunk beds in the back. I have to say, a professional team fitted them and secured them exceptionally well.
And that’s a big thing here, making sure that any amendment like this you do is done correctly and safely. Also check your payload. If you add a lot of wood into the van, make sure the payload is going to hold it.
And check your seat belt numbers too. There’s five of you. You need to have five seat belts. Lots of rules and regs around seat belts, but adding beds, yeah, is absolutely possible. We did it, and we did it very successfully, and we had four bunk beds in the back and a double bed in the front of this big American coach. So it would be feasible to do, but just be sensible about it, and don’t go changing the seat belt numbers, that’s for sure.
Keith Gooden
And don’t let the kids travel in them when you’re driving.
Matt Sims
Hell no, no, definitely not. They need to be clipped in.
Keith Gooden
Thanks, Ashley for the question. Hope that helped you. Paul’s in Newtownards, which is in Ireland, I believe. He says, “I’m nearing early retirement and want to purchase a new, or nearly new, three to four berth motorhome, but want it to be as future proof as possible.”
“Do you know of any manufacturers who have lithium batteries and compressor fridges as standard? I’ve looked at Adria, but they only put the compressor fridge in the compact at present, and I can’t understand why they’ve not carried this into the Coral and Matrix range of full size motorhomes.”
Matt Sims
This really is a case of research, research, research. In terms of lithium, it’s possible to do an upgrade from lead acid to lithium, but you need to check the output voltage of the motorhome’s charging system. I speak at length about this at shows in Q and A sessions. It’s about the BMS, the battery management system on the battery and what voltage it requires to charge and recharge that lithium battery.
We’ve unpacked this in the past with Richard from Teconnex, so go and check that out. But it really is about gathering brochures and browsing Google. There are kind of too many variables to be able to answer this concisely, but my advice would be also to head to a show and start browsing motorhomes for sale at the Warner shows this year. There’s loads of them throughout the year.
There’s nine of them coming up, used and new motorhomes. And head to the big indoor shows as well in Birmingham. Go to your local dealer and talk to them about the products and brands they’ve got. You mentioned Adria, but there are loads of other brands too, and some of them, I’m sure, will be fitting both a compressor and lithium battery.
Keith Gooden
Here’s one, @Phil.O.Sophical. That’s Philip Osophical. It reminds me of my cousin, Ben Dover. “Hi, Matt. We have Gasflow refillable. And when planning getaways, I make a note of LPG filling stations en route, call in and top up regardless of gas level. This, I believe, is the biggest advantage over replacement bottles. I called into your shop recently with an autograph book in hand.” What, are you trying to sell them?
“I should have known better than to expect a Podcaster of the Year nominee to be waiting behind the counter all day just in case a fan showed up. No doubt I will have to wait for Keith’s memoirs to be published, the good and the bad and the ugly truth, to discover if your new found celebrity status has changed you at all. Keep the podcasts coming,” says @Phil.O.Sophical.
Matt Sims
Bless you, Phil. I am often in the shop, you know. Sometimes I answer the phone, and people- I am in the shop! And people are really taken aback. Keith’s shaking his head like mad. And people say, is that Matt? I mean, we’re a real business here. We’re a real team. And I am often on the shop floor, literally laying down, having a rest.
Keith Gooden
Close the door, Matt, they say.
Matt Sims
So yeah, Phil, mylpg.eu is your friend when it comes to hunting out gas. I was recently talking to Carl from Gaslow about this point, and we were discussing the fact that gas refill points are becoming fewer and fewer – not disappearing, but becoming less prevalent.
And he made the comment, as you do, about filling up en route, and there’s this kind of obsession with filling the bottle before you head off from home. You don’t need to. Find somewhere en route to fill it up, which I thought was really good advice.
We’re hoping to get Carl long from Gaslow. So we are hunting you down, Carl, and I am going to find an hour in your diary when you can come on the podcast. There we are, I have said it out loud.
Keith Gooden
When you refill, I presume the LPG is a liquid form, is it? So it’s going to have a weight to it, which is another reason not to always feel before you leave home, because you’re just using fuel to transport it, aren’t you?
Matt Sims
That’s true. You’re wasting diesel to go and get it! En route there’s loads of places that sell it, and mylpg.eu is a great app. It has pricing as well. I’m told it’s not always fully up to date, but in my experience, it has been good enough, and that’s where we refill our bottle.
Keith Gooden
There you go, Phil.O.Sophical. I hope that has been a help to you.
Ask Matt
Keith Gooden
If somebody wants to ask you a question, what should they do, Matt?
Matt Sims
We’d love it you did. Head to mhmp.info/askmatt. You can record your question by clicking the orange button. Please tell us where in the world you are, or if you’d rather not hear your own voice, you can fill out the form and we’ll read it for you.
Keith Gooden
You can leave a review at mhmp.info/review.
Matt Sims
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