Keith Gooden
Welcome along to the Motorhome Matt podcast. I’m Keith Gooden.
Matt Sims
And I’m Motorhome Matt.
Keith Gooden
I ask the stupid questions, and Matt, well, he’s the expert. It’s all brought to you with www.thatleisureshop.com.
Matt Sims
And make sure you like and subscribe to your chosen podcast app. And don’t forget to like and subscribe on YouTube too, sponsored by our video producers, www.arobasecreative.co.uk.
Four weeks on from the Motorhome and Caravan Show 2023
Keith Gooden
In this week’s episode, our product is something a little different from Motorhome Holiday Club. We speak to Paul Kirby, the electric van man, and we hear your thoughts from the big show last month. But first of all into the news, Matt. It’s four weeks on from the NEC.
Matt Sims
Well, I’m still tired. I’ll be honest, I haven’t really stopped. It’s been a busy month. We’ve seen an uplift in used motorhome sales here and online across lots of dealerships. I think people went to the show and probably thought, “Wow, that’s a lot of money. Let’s go and look at second hand.” That was the theme, wasn’t it, throughout the week in our conversations.
It was about the screen price. I’d never seen so many motorhomes over £200,000. Dealers were reporting higher than average prices they’d ever seen before. So I think that’s been a big surprise from the show, coupled with the fact that people were actually buying them. There were loads of deals done.
Keith Gooden
So the prices have gone up by quite a lot. I think somebody said on the podcast a couple of weeks ago that a 10% increase is a lot when you’re spending £40,000 or £50,000. So they’ve gone up a lot but people are still shelling out.
Matt Sims
Yeah, they are. One dealer, a friend of mine, Aoife, she reported that she’d sold three Cathargos so far that week, which is fantastic. Well done, Aoife. Another friend of mine with another dealership did over £1 million worth of deals in one day.
So it’d be interesting to know, and I’m sure somebody somewhere knows, how much money changes hands at that show. It will be in the tens of millions without a doubt. Of course, that relies on dealers revealing how they’ve performed. You know, many said they’d sold 50 or 60 that week. Well, in reality, it’s probably five.
Keith Gooden
It’s like a Hollywood age. Isn’t it? Just like your Hollywood age.
Matt Sims
It’s your stage age.
Keith Gooden
You say, “I’m 35!”
Matt Sims
Really? Are you that old?
Keith Gooden
I know. I don’t look a day over 34. But there you go.
Matt Sims
There we are. Brilliant. But no, that was the overriding factor, I think, for me. It was brilliant, wasn’t it, to meet our listeners and YouTube watchers and shake their hands. And someone did actually say you were the most famous person they’d ever met.
Keith Gooden
They did. Indeed. They’ve been living under a rock for the last 50 years.
Matt Sims
With you!
Keith Gooden
Never mind. The visitor numbers were quite impressive as well.
Matt Sims
They were. I think I saw an email from the organiser – record numbers. Over 106,000 people visited the show that week. I still think it’s the biggest consumer show that the NEC host. I’m sure that’s the case. But it’s just amazing, isn’t it?
And loads of people were there for the first time. I mentioned it before in the expert theatre. Every lunchtime there was an expert panel which I had the privilege of being on. The number of people that stood up with their hand in the air saying, “I’m a newbie, we’re yet to buy a motorhome,” or, “We’ve just bought our first motorhome,” and they had a question.
And the number of people we’ve met and spoke to who had just bought their first motorhome… so it’s still growing. It’s still as popular as ever. And it’s great to see new blood, as it were, coming into this niche.
Keith Gooden
Impressive figures for the NEC, but of course this podcast has more followers! Just saying!
Matt Sims
Just imagine if everyone got together who was listening to this in one place.
Keith Gooden
That would be good, wouldn’t it?
Matt Sims
It’d be noisy.
Keith Gooden
Are you thinking of a Christmas party?
Matt Sims
Let’s do it. Let’s do it. Round your house?
Keith Gooden
No, you’ve got the mansion, haven’t you, with the fantastic view?
Matt Sims
Mansion? It’s got an amazing view, but it’s not a mansion. It is a lovely view.
Keith Gooden
How many cars?
Matt Sims
Yeah, let’s not talk about that.
Keith Gooden
Yeah, let’s not talk about that one.
Matt’s product of the week
Keith Gooden
It’s the Motorhome Matt podcast with me, Keith Gooden.
Matt Sims
And with me, Motorhome Matt.
Keith Gooden
It’s brought to you with www.thatleisureshop.com. This week we’ve got a product which isn’t a thing you can feel and you can touch. You can’t hold it in your hands and hold it up to the light and admire it. It’s not a thing, it’s a concept, Matt. What’s your concept product?
Matt Sims
So as you’ll know if you’re listening to this or watching it, I own Motorhome Holiday Company, which is our motorhome hire and sales business. And for a long time we wanted to launch a loyalty plan. And we have! We’ve done it.
It’s called Motorhome Holiday Club, and you pay to join the club and get access to some amazing savings on your motorhome holidays. If you’re looking to hire a motorhome, we offer you up to half price off weekends away out of season particularly and especially some short notice deals. 15% off your booking for next year.
So if you’ve not bought a motorhome and you’re thinking, “Let’s just hire one for a bit,” this is a great way to save money. And in two weekends away you’d pay for your membership fee. So membership carries a fee of £497, but there’s a whole load of savings you can benefit from by being in the club, so picking up early, returning late, giving you that flexibility, a second driver and taking the dog at no extra cost and a number of other benefits too. So you can find out more at www.motorhomeholidaycompany.com/club.
Keith Gooden
£497, not £496 or £498. That’s a very exactly figure. Why didn’t you just round it up to £499?
Matt Sims
It has to have a seven in it. See, we’re already £2 cheaper than you.
Keith Gooden
If you want to find out more, what should people do?
Matt Sims
Go to www.motorhomeholidaycompany.com/club.
The scarcity of electric motorhomes at the Motorhome and Caravan Show
Keith Gooden
It’s the Motorhome Matt podcast with me, Keith Gooden.
Matt Sims
And with me, Motorhome Matt.
Keith Gooden
It’s brought to you with www.thatleisureshop.com. And let’s talk about what’s coming up later, our guest interview with Paul Kirby the electric van man. But first, Matt, you’re talking about 1,000 motorhomes at the NEC but only one electric-powered one.
Matt Sims
Well, as far as I could see that was the case, yeah. Bailey’s Endeavor EV was there, the one we featured in a video and did a review of recently.
Keith Gooden
You can’t buy it.
Matt Sims
You can’t buy it, that’s very true. It’s purely a prototype. But I’m told there were over 1,000 vehicles – that’s probably including caravans as well – but I didn’t see any other EV based motorhome. Now, you joked with me earlier, “This is your favourite topic, Matt!” I’m not sure it is. That’s not true. But it’s certainly a massive topic.
Keith Gooden
Toilets are his favourite.
Matt Sims
Wild camping! No, it’s a big topic. It’s a change that’s coming, and frankly, nobody’s talking about it. And that I found very evident at the show where this massive move that’s coming to motorhomes, goodness knows when, just wasn’t represented at the show with manufacturers and businesses demoing their future investment and what their future product might be. So I just found it interesting that it was only Bailey who’d taken the plunge and it was a big financial plunge for them, sure, a huge investment. But it was the only one.
Keith Gooden
I must admit as an outsider to this business, I do feel that a lot of energy is being expended on EV motorhomes with not much to show for it, Matt.
Matt Sims
Not yet. Well, you can’t buy one yet because it’s just not viable. But Paul reveals some interesting truths and revelations in our interview with him. One of the issues with the Bailey Endeavour EV is obviously the range. That was the number one question.
Keith Gooden
108 miles.
Matt Sims
That was the number one question that the team were asked, “What’s the range?” The other issue, of course, is you need a C1 to drive it because it is over three and a half tonnes. But Paul tells us about a new government derogation change, that means that’s no longer going to be the case.
What is derogation?
Keith Gooden
A negation?
Matt Sims
A derogation – so it’s like a classification of a vehicle weight. So I’ll let Paul explain. But basically, if the vehicle is alternatively fuelled, i.e., all electric, you can drive it on a normal car licence up to four and a quarter tonnes.
Keith Gooden
Just for EVs. If you’re unsure about what you can and can’t drive, look at the back of your plastic driving licence. And you’ll see all the categories that you can drive. Pricing, though – that’s what we’re talking about. We’ve already been talking about these traditional motorhomes, which go for £100,000. Electric ones are going to be 20 percent more than diesel when they arrive. But that’s already the case for cars, isn’t it?
Matt Sims
It is already the case for cars typically. Yeah. And there are lots of conversations about the used value of electric cars as well. It’s been in the press a lot recently. But it’s interesting – talking to Paul, he has a prediction of what’s going to happen to diesel powered motorhomes in the future. And he thinks they’re going to go up.
The future of motorhomes with Paul Kirby
Keith Gooden
Well, we spoke with Paul Kirby, the electric van man, at the NEC Motorhome and Caravan Show.
Matt Sims
So you are the electric van man, you are the expert in the EV world when it comes to vans. That’s your bag. And you’re a big, big influencer in that world. What are we in for, Paul? We’ve seen the E Transit, it’s not viable. The range is a woeful 108 miles. What are we in for? Is it real? Is it 10 years away?
Paul Kirby
I don’t know exactly how far. What I do know is battery technology is changing at quite a pace. We’re seeing different chemistries. That doesn’t necessarily mean that we will see an improvement in range particularly. What we know is that Iveco have come with a full battery option which could get you up to, I don’t know, maybe just over 200 miles.
We expect the Ford E Transit to come out next year with 235. We’re expecting the E Sprinter to come early next year or mid year next year with ranges probably into the 230s, 250s. That sort of range. I mean, they actually managed to get nearly 300 miles out of it in an American test. So what we’re seeing is there is growth.
I think we’ll probably max out at 300 because of the way the batteries are currently, but solid state batteries might come where energy intensity will be higher and the weight of the batteries will be lower. So I think we’ll get there. But I think it’s three to five years. I think technology with all the new platforms that are promised around ’26, Mercedes, Ford, VW, all of those guys, dedicated platforms for commercial vehicles. And I think we’ll see some real changes there.
Matt Sims
Yeah. And of course, EV has been in the news a lot recently. Constantly. We’ve been talking about Rishi’s rule recently, haven’t we, and this alleged change that Rishi’s played to the consumer. I’m a cynic. It’s a vote winner. We talked about the ZEV mandate.
The ZEV mandate
Keith Gooden
Which is what?
Matt Sims
The zero emission vehicle mandate. So Paul, just explain…
Keith Gooden
Zebras, elephants and voles?
Matt Sims
Well, it might be in some circles. Yeah.
Keith Gooden
Explain exactly what it all means to ordinary people at this show.
Paul Kirby
Well, I think you summed it up brilliantly in the ordinary people element, because what we’ve done is made loads of decisions at government level. So the 2030 deferring to 2035, actually really didn’t change that much.
So the ZEV mandate dictates how many vehicles or zero emission vehicles a manufacturer must register each year. So from a commercial vehicle perspective in the space that we operate in, it’s 10% next year. It ends up 70% by 2030. That hasn’t changed.
Matt Sims
I thought it was 80%.
Paul Kirby
No, that’s cars. We don’t do cars. We don’t do the C word.
Matt Sims
We have a C word – it’s called caravans. So 80% cars and 70% vans. Right. Okay. And that’s not gone away?
Paul Kirby
No, no, that’s exactly as it was.
Matt Sims
And is it true, then, to jump in, a car manufacturer gets fined £15,000 per car if they don’t honour it?
Paul Kirby
Correct. And £18,000 per van. £9,000 for the first year. So there’s been a little bit of a tweak in the first year and the second year around the numbers and the value, but £18,000.
Keith Gooden
So who’s that going to get passed on to, then?
Paul Kirby
Well, you and me.
Keith Gooden
Yeah, well, that’s funny. As usual!
Paul Kirby
Have you got any money on you?
Keith Gooden
Not any more.
Matt Sims
Surely they’re going to just honour it, they’re going to do it.
Paul Kirby
Who’s going to do it?
Matt Sims
The manufacturers.
Paul Kirby
Yeah, they’ve got to.
Matt Sims
They’re not going to pay £15,000 to £17,000 per van.
Paul Kirby
But when we look at the manufacturers and their plans… so Ford came out with a big statement just before Rishi made his statement. And they said, “Don’t do it. Rishi, this isn’t a good idea.” And then immediately afterwards, they said, “You shouldn’t have done that Rishi. It’s not a good idea.”
And Stellantis, who are the makers of Citroen, Vauxhall, Peugeot, Fiat and so on, they are committed to zero emissions by 2028 for Vauxhall, and the rest of the brands by 2030. So they’re not going to be producing any ICE vehicles beyond that, internal combustion engines.
Similarly, Ford have got a real commitment to drive that change. And they want to be leaders in that market. Mercedes are bringing all electric platforms in 2026. So we’re seeing big, big changes. I mean, they won’t all be electric.
Matt Sims
That’s only three years away.
Paul Kirby
No, there will be diesel vehicles available as well. But there will be all electric platforms specifically.
Will the price of motorhomes keep rising?
Matt Sims
What does Rishi’s rule change actually mean, then?
Paul Kirby
It means that we’ve caused confusion to reign.
Matt Sims
Great.
Paul Kirby
Because now we need the consumer, the people that are walking around these shows – they think, “I’ve got another five years.” Actually, you’ve got another five years in some ways. But the reality is the manufacturers still have the same targets.
And it will be the same cost to them. They’ve been working on these plans for three years. So over that three years, they’ve organised what they’re going to be doing to meet the target. Yhey’re not going to suddenly take the foot off the gas now, and go, “We can all chill and relax.”
Keith Gooden
So hang on – in a few years, if somebody wants to buy a diesel vehicle, they’ll be able to. But there’ll be fewer being manufactured because of this rule. And I presume then with supply and demand that prices are going to go up.
Paul Kirby
So we talk about this idea of price parity. So the idea of price parity is all about… everybody’s been thinking electric vehicles will come down in price. Not the case.
Keith Gooden
You’re going to put everything up around it?
The introduction of Euro 7
Paul Kirby
The diesel vehicles will become more expensive, not least because Euro 7 comes along in 2026, we believe. And that will push the price up of the diesel variants. They’re already nearly equal.
Keith Gooden
Talking about Euro 7, of course, with all the zones that have been put in in London, ULEZ and Bristol there, it’s not going to make any difference because obviously, the air is clean with the Euro 6. They’re not going to push it up to Euro 7, are they?
Paul Kirby
Yes, they are. And they are because some of the worst pollutants…
Keith Gooden
I thought Euro 6 was clean at the moment.
Paul Kirby
The bit that Euro 6 solves is the engine. But Euro 7 now starts focusing on the brake discs and the tyre wear. And so what we’re going to be seeing is that those vehicles will have to meet it, so electric vehicles will come under that legislation as well.
So we’ll be seeing lots of changes, and the prices will go up. Manufacturers are just not going to want to produce diesel vehicles. Now, for this sector, obviously, I think, you know, there will probably be some long tail. So there’ll be some diesel vehicles. But quickly when technology catches up and we start getting the solid state batteries… and let’s be honest, people in here are not price bothered that much. I know that they probably want a decent value.
Keith Gooden
But if it goes up by 25 or 30 percent…
Paul Kirby
It’s not going to. The diesel vans will go up. So they’ll be the same price. So you’ll just be choosing between, well, okay, I can have a high tech electric van or I can have this diesel thing.
Matt Sims
They are going to go up, then. The base vehicle will, I think, so we’re going to see another increase again. And this is going to happen in the next few years, which of course has a knock on effect on the used market. Those prices remain buoyant. So this instability doesn’t help. So this is helpful, because this is helping us make a plan.
So prices are going to be going up, then, again. We need stability. This is really, really helpful. But what’s going to happen to the used market, you know? Are they going to stay where they are, are they going to remain strong, are they going to go up in price again?
Paul Kirby
We’re going to get instability in the used market. But I don’t know that that’s going to apply for your sector. My gut instinct is people are wanting what they want in this sector. And I don’t see diesel vans particularly plummeting. These vehicles last a long, long time, and they hold their value. So I don’t expect it to happen there.
But I do expect it to be very unstable within the fleet sector. But I don’t think that’s going to impact you potentially. But what that might mean is that some people can pick up quite a cheap van, and we’ve got the do it yourself conversions here, where you can just put the internals of a campervan into the back of the van. And that might actually work.
Matt Sims
Well, they’re £50,000, £60,000, £70,000, £80,000 plus, they’re not cheap.
Paul Kirby
But if you’re buying a cheap van, actually, it could work.
What will happen with motorhome supply?
Matt Sims
And what’s your insight, Paul, and thus, prediction for supply? That’s been one of the biggest impacts we’ve suffered as an industry, a lack of supply, particularly from Stellantis Group, but also all the manufacturers. So we’re seeing new brands on the front radiator grilles these days. What’s your prediction?
Paul Kirby
That’s a really good question. We’ve got Chinese brands lining themselves up at the shores, almost. We’ve got Ford and Mercedes and VW all changing their lineup to meet the need. It’s whether or not fleet demands it, or the capacity is more than fleet demands, because we just heard that VW shut the factory down for a couple of weeks on their ID.3, and their CUPRA Born electric versions.
They’re just managing supply and demand. So if the sector has a vehicle that is suitable and will do all of the range and all of the bits and pieces, then I think you should have supply. Supply should come. But it might not be in big numbers until towards 2030.
Keith Gooden
You’re talking about managing supply and demand. And what we’ve heard already is you just want to control supply and demand. And in free markets, that never works, does it? The market will go the way it goes. You can’t buck a trend.
So no matter what the powers that be want us to buy and want us to want, ultimately, the consumer is king. But what you’re saying is the things won’t be available for you to buy. And if they are, they’re going to be priced up.
Paul Kirby
No, no. So I’m not saying they won’t be available. I think they will be available more and more and more because manufacturers have got to make them because they have that very clear mandate.
Keith Gooden
But not more expensive?
Paul Kirby
I think prices will come together.
Keith Gooden
They’ll go up to meet the electric price rather than electric coming down.
Paul Kirby
Yeah, I do believe that over time and volume, which is natural, that electric could become a little bit cheaper. But I don’t know that for sure, obviously, with the economics, we’ll see. And there could be big price choices around the battery size, the range that you want, the weight that you want to carry. All of those choices will be very clearly down to price based on the technology that’s within the vehicle.
Keith Gooden
I was talking to Matt earlier today when we were setting up at God knows what time in the morning. And we were talking about electric vehicles. And I was saying when it came to that 1.1 little engine that Issigonis was given and told, “Design a car around it,” he designed the Morris Minor. And then they said, “We need something bigger. We need something better.” He said, “You’re not going to get bigger, but you’re going to get better.”
He put the same engine in a Mini, a 1.4 or whatever, a 1.6, in the Mini Cooper. A tiny engine, but he used the technology already to hand. Have you seen anything around here that you could shrink down to make it a leisure vehicle like a campervan which could have actually do a decent range with the battery power we’ve got now?
Paul Kirby
The obvious one that jumps out for me there is the VW ID Buzz. The VW ID Buzz has a range of about 250 miles. And that’s realisticish in the summer. Less so in the winter. The range changes. Payload is just about enough to be able to get a couple of people.
Keith Gooden
Two people and some knives and forks!
Paul Kirby
And it charges very quickly as well. So there is a number of things that will show us that there are changes afoot to make the difference for this community.
New brands building motorhome chassis’
Matt Sims
One thing that’s exciting as well is that we’re likely to see new brands on the radiator grilles, aren’t we? So there are brands from China like Geely. They’ve just done a camper. It’s amazing. It’s phenomenal.
Paul Kirby
I’ve never seen it.
Matt Sims
It’s on YouTube. Go and check it out. It’s very different to what we see here in the UK and in Europe, but it’s a whole new approach to a campervan. It’s all electric. It’s absolutely pioneering. Kia as well are launching an E-van. And I understand they’re launching a chassis that might be appropriate for a motorhome conversion. So it’ll be interesting to see MAN starting to appear on grilles. That’s new. That’s really recent.
We might see Kia. And we’re going to see a lot more collaboration, aren’t we? It’s not all bad news, is it? We’ve got some good news. An E-van you can drive up to 4,250kg on a normal car licence if it’s non-fossil fuel, so an alternative fuels. At the moment, that’s electric. That derogation – I’ll use the correct term – government have approved it and it’s going to be applied to motorhomes. All vehicles. Is that right?
Paul Kirby
All vehicles. So they’ve not come out and specifically said motorhomes, but they’re writing the legislation that affirms that all vehicles at the former weight of three and a half tonnes, so the chassis for your donor vehicles for the motorhomes, can go up to four and a quarter tonnes.
Matt Sims
So our E-chassis motorhome, or motor caravan under the DVLA, would be four and a quarter tonnes and youngsters can drive them.
Paul Kirby
It’s a decent payload.
Matt Sims
It’s a decent payload and you can drive them on a B licence.
Paul Kirby
On a B category licence.
Keith Gooden
That’s big news, isn’t it?
Matt Sims
It’s big news that’s just come out.
Paul Kirby
It’s just come out. So there has been a consultation around that derogation which has been out for five years, since 2018, but it only met the need of a van. Even chassis conversions of any kind, all of those had to be at three and a half tonnes.
Now we can go to four and a quarter tonnes and plate them at four and a quarter tonnes and the B category licence holders can drive them. Now, there was a derogation for them to be allowed to drive them. But it required training and it was complex and other bits and pieces. But now we’re at the point where you can drive a 4.25 tonne vehicle on a B licence for leisure facilities.
Keith Gooden
Just electric?
Paul Kirby
Just alternatively fueled vehicles. So it could be electric but it could be hydrogen, if ever a hydrogen vehicle came.
Matt Sims
Methanol?
Paul Kirby
Anything zero emissions. So as long as you can prove it’s zero emissions, then you’re good.
Keith Gooden
So if you’ve got an electric you can do 4.25, but you’re only going to go 40 miles.
Paul Kirby
So the Ford E-Transit will do 108. And that’s based on a 3.9 tonne chassis with all the weight that’s on it.
Keith Gooden
But as you say, in winter, it’s going to be less than that.
Paul Kirby
I would say it would be 108 in winter.
Keith Gooden
That’s good news.
Paul Kirby
I would say, knowing that vehicle and knowing what the potential range is, it will be around that. But it is still going to be tricky for a while.
Keith Gooden
It’s going to be a challenge. I was talking to somebody today on the stand who popped over from north Wales. And they’re successful business people and they want to open a caravan park in north Wales. It’s their dream.
They’ve been motorhomers and caravanners all their lives. And I said, “Well, we talk a lot about electric vehicles here on the podcast.” And he said, “I’m glad about that, because we’re putting in charging points.” But he said, “We know there are no electric campers. It’s for the cars towing caravans.” So we’re in that funny no man’s land, aren’t we?
Paul Kirby
We’re in a transitional phase. I mean, the word transition is just rolled out for everything. But we’ve got to remember that. We’ve got to start and we’ve got to then grow, and it grows to a point where the J curve kicks in. And the J curve has kicked in in cars.
Keith Gooden
You’re absolutely right. But if I can just throw this in – transition means consumers wait, and consumers waiting is bad for sales.
Paul Kirby
Well, I hear what you’re saying. But I think people are buying what’s available at the moment. You know your market better than than I do. But what we’re seeing are that there is a lot of electric vehicles coming and they’re being sold.
I think there are challenges, definitely, and we need focus from government on the used market and the van market and on the truck market. And once we get all of that and get a firm head of steam, we will see that change.
Matt Sims
That’s true, but Paul, we also need education.
Are electric vehicles more at risk of causing fires?
Matt Sims
So there’s a whole load of mythology and pub talk about EVs. And loads of people have commented, and it’s fair to say loads – they’ve made a comment on the Bailey Endeavor EV video we’ve put out and on socials saying, “You’re just buying your own coffin.” You know, “You’re going to cremate yourself.” And this is the accusation, that EVs explode. It’s been in the news recently that EVs have caused fires in car parks.
Paul Kirby
Well, the Luton car park fire was blamed initially on a Tesla plugged in, and that’s been categorically disproven.
Keith Gooden
The fire service have said that it was a diesel vehicle.
Paul Kirby
A diesel Range Rover specifically.
Keith Gooden
Yeah, they have been very specific, which struck me as odd. Obviously they are the experts and I believe them, but diesel doesn’t ignite unless it’s an aerosol under pressure, does it?
Paul Kirby
Yeah, so it wouldn’t have been the diesel bit that caught on fire. It would have been the electrical system within the vehicle. So that will have caused the fire. And then the explosions come with the fumes in the tanks.
Now, what’s interesting, though, is that we talk about thermal runaway. Now, in those 1,500 vehicles or 1,200 vehicles that went up, there will have been a significant portion of electric vehicles. And we haven’t heard that the whole place went to pot.
Now, that fire might have burned more intensely because of some of the chemicals. But one, it didn’t start with an electric vehicle, and two, electric vehicles are 24 times less likely to catch fire than their diesel counterparts.
Matt Sims
24 times less likely?
Keith Gooden
That is an incredible statistic, isn’t it? But why are people so keen to jump in and blame electric vehicles if something goes wrong? Why is that?
Paul Kirby
I don’t know. I think everybody’s afraid of change, right?
Matt Sims
I think we feel railroaded into this. That’s the problem, isn’t it?
Paul Kirby
I think that’s part of it. But I think your community is one that embraces sustainability, and enjoying life, getting the very best out of life. Well, listen, we want good air quality, don’t we? We want nice environments to operate in. And moving to electric gives us that.
Now, we want freedom also, and we believe that diesel gives us the freedom of 400 or 500 miles per tank or whatever it might be, and it’s simple. So we’ve got to get to that point where we provide your community in particular with vehicles that meet those needs.
Matt Sims
What we need is education. And I’ve quoted you a number of times that we’re going to spend the next 10 years undoing what we’ve traditionally done for 100 years. You said that in a recent podcast we did together at Campervan Campout, and we need that education. We need that encouragement, and we just need experts like you, Paul, to give us the facts.
You know, so many news channels are just quick to run clickbait stories, all these falsehoods that are just not true. We need truths. We need brilliant people like you, like Quentin Wilson, you know, big spokespeople for the industry to speak up and we need to get their voices heard.
So we’re hoping to get Quentin on the podcast to talk about some of this FUD stuff, the fear of uncertainty and doubt. It’s really real in this industry, we are scared of change. That’s the reality. We’ve been doing what we’ve been doing for a long time. This change is being forced upon us. So we need your help.
So we’re going to keep in touch with you, Paul. We want you to keep telling us, and we’re going to get updates from you, I hope. And I hope as you’re listening to this or watching it that you will appreciate Paul’s presence again because you’ve got the inside track, far closer than we have on what’s happening outside our industry. And what happens there influences what happens here. So it’s great having you with us today.
Please do have a look around the show, pick it apart and pick some brains. Thank you again, Paul. Great to see you and thank you for coming to our world – we really did appreciate you having a look around the show and giving you a flavour of what we experience here with vans and with motorhomes especially. Paul is actually the fifth most influential man in the world of EV, according to some survey somewhere. Elon Musk is number one. I want to know, who’s number two, three and four?
Keith Gooden
Are you not on that chart?
Matt Sims
No, of course not.
Keith Gooden
Oh, my goodness. Well, we are on the charts by the way. As we record this, we’re number seven in the Apple motoring and leisure podcast, ahead of Wheeler Dealers and Top Gear.
Matt Sims
Top Gear, I know. We went to number two in New Zealand. Did you see that?
Keith Gooden
Really?
Matt Sims
Yeah, we went to number five in the UK and Top Gear dropped down below number 10, which is just incredible, isn’t it?
Keith Gooden
Thank you very much.
Matt Sims
How did we get to number two in New Zealand? Can we go there?
Keith Gooden
We have a large woolly listenership, obviously.
Matt Sims
What?!
Keith Gooden
Woolly, as in sheep.
Keith Gooden
Okay, then – well, I mean, on that interview from Paul, he let some cats out of bags there about Euro 7 for instance and ULEZes and CAZes if you’d like to call them that. At the moment, if you’ve got Euro 6, you’re compliant, and the air is clean and everything’s wonderful. But when you’re Euro 7 comes along, he did more than intimate that actually, Euro 6s are going to get charged these CAZ and ULEZ fees.
Matt Sims
Call me a cynic, hey?
Keith Gooden
You’re a cynic.
Matt Sims
What we need is education. We really need to be educated. I wish someone would have the profile and be given the opportunity by the national media to tell us the truth about the EV future. It is coming. I’m a fan of that change, I have to say, if you haven’t noticed.
We need to do it for the sake of our kids and our grandchildren. I think they’re going to look at us and go, “What? You did what?” I think they’re going to feel that we were bizarre, but we need education.
In the EV world, there’s this big phrase – FUD. We’ve talked about it before, the fear of uncertainty and doubt. It is prolific and it feels like a forced change upon us. And we have no choice in the matter.
And now we’re being told we’re going to have to pay more for them as well. Okay, we’ll get a choice between diesel and EV for a while, but you know, there’ll come a point where diesel fuel is going to go up in price, the Ulez is going to go up, and we just won’t be allowed to go anywhere in our diesel powered vehicles.
And that’s how the change is going to be, I think, forced through. And that’s the point – it’s going to be forced. So that creates resistance. And we need educating on why this is a good change. Some of the myths that are out there, they just need dismissing. And I wish the press would allow some great spokespeople like Paul and many others the air time to educate us and give us the facts.
Keith Gooden
Yeah, not least we’d like the government to tell us how they’re going to make up the money if we don’t have diesel and petrol vehicles for taxes and the VAT on top of the taxes. Call me cynical, but I think the ULEZes and CAZes are where they’re going to get their money from.
Matt Sims
Do you reckon? They’ll put up electricity as well, surely. There’s going to be more VAT on energy. It has to be replaced, doesn’t it? It’s coming.
Keith Gooden
It’s a big chunk of change.
Matt Sims
It is a big chunk of change. Yeah, and all that creates fear, uncertainty and thus doubt. And we stop believing that it’s a positive change and that’s the problem. That’s what needs to be addressed.
Audience responses
Keith Gooden
It’s the Motorhome Matt podcast with me, Keith Gooden.
Matt Sims
And with me, Motorhome Matt.
Keith Gooden
It’s brought to you with www.thatleisureshop.com. We’d normally do a Q&A here, but we’re not Q&Aing this week. No, it will be back, don’t worry. What we’re doing is listening to some of the chats that Matt had, Matt chats that he had with people at the big show at the NEC. First of all, we are going to hear Matt’s chat with Amanda and Howard.
Matt Sims
I’m here with Amanda and Howard at the end of the day at the Motorhome and Caravan show. It’s the end of the show. It’s Sunday night and they’ve come back to the stand with some news. Amanda, what’s happened?
Amanda
We’ve bought a motorhome!
Matt Sims
Well done. What did you buy?
Amanda
We bought a Swift
Howard
It’s the 694.
Matt Sims
The one with the island bed at the back? Very nice. A heavy one.
Amanda
Quite heavy. Yeah. 4.2 tonnes.
Matt Sims
Yeah, loads of payload.
Amanda
500 kilos. Yeah.
Matt Sims
So when did this journey start for you, Howard? When did it all begin, the search for a motorhome? Because you’ve not had one before, have you?
Howard
At the motorhome show last year.
Matt Sims
That was when we met.
Howard
Yeah. I watched your podcast plenty of times over the last year. And also the Roaming Radfords. Very informative. And that’s given us the bug to get one.
Matt Sims
Amazing. And when do you get it?
Amanda
Hopefully June, July next year.
Matt Sims
Fantastic. We must keep in touch. And send us pics of you in it. Can’t wait to see it. Well done. What a journey home you’re having tonight!
Amanda
Thank you. Yeah, so excited.
Matt Sims
We’ll keep in touch. Great to see you both again.
Howard
And you, Matt. Thank you very much.
Amanda
Thanks, Matt.
Keith Gooden
What lovely people, Matt.
Matt Sims
They were indeed, and it’s been a bit of a journey for them. And for me! I feel like we know them really well. And we’ve had numerous exchanges at various shows. And it was brilliant to just be part of that moment. They were so excited to be driving home knowing they’re going to own a motorhome, and what a lovely motorhome they’ve started out with as well.
Keith Gooden
That’s Amanda and Howard Oldham there, or A Oldham and H Oldham… Hold’em!
Keith Gooden
You had a Matt chat with another Matt.
Matt Sims
We’ve made a whole new feature here called the Matt chat.
Keith Gooden
Let’s hear from Matt and Matt, shall we?
Matt Sims
Now, I’m here with the star of the show from last year. This is Matt. Good morning, Matt.
Matt
Hey, Matt, how you doing?
Matt Sims
I’m very well now tell us your story very, very quickly. You came to the show, looked at some vans and came back. Why?
Matt
Yes. So last year, we came to the show not really thinking we were going to buy a campervan. Then we saw the van that we’d been looking at for sale here, the exact one, and so we went off back to our hotel, stayed overnight and then woke up in the morning. I said to the wife, “I think we’re going to buy a campervan today.” And she said, “Yeah, maybe.”
Matt Sims
So you came back on the Sunday and bought it, didn’t you?
Matt
Yeah, yeah. So I came and back bumped into you. We somehow managed to get in and talk to the salespeople and put down a deposit on the van. We went home and sorted out the finance and collected in March. And then we’ve been holidaying it through the summer.
Matt Sims
A year on, where have you been, Matt?
Matt
So we’ve been for a few weekends away quite local to us, not too far. I took my son out for a night out not far from Harrogate. We went see some friends down Gloucester way and then we went for a 10-day trip around Scotland.
We went up Ben Nevis, went over on the ferry to the Isle of Skye, drove all the way back over the bridge, went on a cruise on Loch Ness, drove up the whole of the way of Loch Ness to Inverness and drove back down the other side to see some friends in Dunfermline and went to the Edinburgh Festival for a day.
Matt Sims
Amazing. And you went to Shambala as well?
Matt
Yeah, we went to Shambala festival. We went down there for the weekend. That was brilliant. It’s really good having the van at the festival. It’s amazing. It’s so much better than tent camping. And now we’re here again. We’ll see what happens.
Matt Sims
And what brings you back? You’re not going to buy another one, are you?!
Matt
No, we’ve got friends in Birmingham. It’s just a bit of an excuse to see them and maybe get some accessories and get a Motorhome Matt orange tote bag.
Matt Sims
You’ve already got one! Another one?
Matt
We’ve got four now, I think!
Keith Gooden
Matt and Matt having a chat chat.
Matt Sims
So when we see Matt’s motorhome for sale, it’ll be incredibly high mileage and full of mud and glitter from all the festivals it has been to.
Keith Gooden
Sounds like he’s having fun, though, doesn’t it?
Matt Sims
Yeah, it was a great story because they came last year. They were so excited to come back on the second day and make the purchase. And we bumped into them again. He very kindly came and said hi. It was great to meet him and the kids again and just hear their story. It’s real world. I love it. It’s great.
Should you join an owners club?
Keith Gooden
Some people do ask, what is the benefit of an owners’ club, Matt?
Matt Sims
Well, yeah, that’s true.
Keith Gooden
You’ve talked to some people about this idea.
Matt Sims
I did. I noticed that the show… whether I’m wrong in this, I don’t know. But I seemed to notice more owners’ clubs on the manufacturers’ stands than I’d seen previously. Now, one owners’ club in particular, the Adria Owners Club, have always been on the Adria stand at the shows for many years. And I spoke with Paul and Lynda Ginger. And I asked them, why join an owners’ club?
Paul Ginger
It’s the benefits for the members, really. The club is independent. It’s fully supported by Adria Concessionaires and is the only owners’ club that is. And there are lots of benefits for the members for when they join. Advice and help is probably the main one that a lot of people come to us for.
People like you are very active in giving good advice out to our members. We have a club website where we can put stuff up for sale, so the members can look on that. We’ve also got a closed Facebook page just for the members alone.
We do newsletters and birthday cards for the members. That’s the main thing. But we also do lots of trips and rallies. And not everybody is into doing trips and rallies. And we fully accept that. But we’ve got a hardcore of probably about 70 or 80 units that dip in and out of all the trips and things that we organise.
And for example, we’ve just got back from Greece. We’ve done a three-week tour around Greece, and that was last week. Next year, we’re looking at going to the west coast of France, the Peak District for a UK rally, possibly Poland in September.
And then every third year, we go down to Slovenia and visit the factory. And we find that is really popular. And if I’m honest, that’s the reason I joined the club myself in the first place, to do the trip to Slovenia and havea look around the factory.
Matt Sims
It’s a brilliant trip, I have to say. What a great country.
Paul Ginger
It’s absolutely amazing. And it’s a beautiful country as well. Beautiful.
Matt Sims
So Paul, that gives us a bit of an overview of the Adria Owners Club, which is a very active owners’ club. I can vouch for that myself. But Lynda, for you personally, what’s the merit for you of belonging to a club like that?
Lynda Ginger
I think the main thing is that you get lots of new friends. We’ve made friendships going back now over 10 or 12 years, and they’ve remained friends. Obviously, we’ve got friends who are now sadly no longer with us. And that’s quite sad. But we still remember them every single year. They get mentioned.
We always have a fantastic Christmas party where we all get together, have a good old knees up and drink lots and eat lots of food. So that’s good. And also I think for new people, it gives them the confidence to have someone there to ask questions when you’re travelling either in the UK or abroad.
So I think that’s a really good, sound thing to do because it’s quite helpful. If you’re nervous of travelling anywhere, there’s always someone on hand. And as we say, no question is ever silly. We’ve all been there. We’ve all done that. We’ve all made mistakes. So it’s good to have people like that to do things with you.
Matt Sims
Absolutely. Now, Paul the prices this year – so many motorhomes over £200,000, so many over £100,000. Is that stopping people buying and joining a club?
Paul Ginger
It doesn’t appear to be. They’re still selling them. And we’re still getting the club members joining us and we’ve had a couple of enquiries already this morning. People have got orders in but haven’t gotten the motorhomes yet.
And the point we make to them is, well, you can join now, but your membership will actually take effect from when it’s sitting on your driveway. So you’ll be a member of the club because it’s done yearly. It will take effect from when you get the motorhome, but they’re still selling them. They’re still selling them.
Matt Sims
There are some very happy dealers around, I have to say. Where can people find out more about the Adria Owners Club?
Paul Ginger
Go to the website www.clubadria.co.uk for more information.
Matt Sims
A special thanks to Paul and Linda for taking the time out to speak to me at the show. Lovely to see you guys, and great to see lots of the club members as well. The Adria Owners Club is one of the most active clubs, I think.
I’m a member, having owned an Adria, or still do, and of course Adria are built in Slovenia, which is why there’s such a big trip down to that lovely place every three years. So yeah, if you want to find out more, go to www.clubadria.co.uk.
Keith Gooden
There you are. There you have it. That’s the Motorhome Matt podcast for this week. If people want to get in touch, Matt, what should they do?
Matt Sims
Easy. If you’ve got a question, you can ask it at mhmp.info/askmatt.
Keith Gooden
Or you can leave us a review at mhmp.info/review.
Matt Sims
We’d love that. That would be great. And don’t forget to subscribe to us on YouTube, which is sponsored by our video producers www.arobasecreative.co.uk.
