Keith Gooden
Welcome along to the Motorhome Matt podcast. I’m Keith Gooden.
Matt Sims
And I’m Motorhome Matt.
Keith Gooden
I ask the stupid questions, and Matt – well, he’s the expert. It’s brought to you by www.thatleisureshop.com. Good to have you along. It’s been busy, busy, busy. Matt, what have we got to talk about today?
The C1 licence review
Matt Sims
Well, in the news this week, we were expecting an announcement on the C1 licence review.
Keith Gooden
What’s the difference in the licences?
Matt Sims
So when you pass your test now, if you took a test today, you’re capped at three and a half tonnes. That’s how much you can drive. You can tow up to three and a half tonnes now because the caravan towing or the towing licence test has been lifted. And this is what sparked the change of the C1.
So I took my test – like you, we’re old – before 1997. I took my test in a Mini and could immediately get in a seven and a half tonne truck. It seems a bit daft, doesn’t it? And the EU imposed the rule that it was sensible to cap that at three and a half tonnes. The government are considering lifting it, which would mean that more people could drive a heavy van.
So with a shortage of truck drivers and van drivers, it would mean everybody could drive a van. For us as motorhomers, it means we could drive heavier motorhomes, giving us more payload, so how much we can carry. And manufacturers could make motorhomes that were heavier, and arguably, I think, safer.
We have an announcement. There’s no announcement. There is no news. So it was due on the 21st of September. And it hasn’t happened. It has been kicked into the long grass. And I guess it’s just not made the political agenda. So Sharon Sparkes at Mendip Towing, who we spoke to about this, confirmed she’d spoken to the chief examiner who’d heard nothing.
I thought, “Right. I’ll phone our friend Edmund King, president of the AA. So I did and Edmund said, “Nope.” He’s waiting on a number of topics the government are reviewing and no decisions have been made.
Accident statistics on the b1+e licence test change
Matt Sims
We were also waiting on accident statistics.
They will due by the 21st of September as well. Has there been an increase in accidents as a result of lifting the B 1 plus E licence test to tow a trailer? Which means you can now go and pass your test in a car and drive up to three and a half tonnes and then tow a trailer up to three and a half tonnes.
Keith Gooden
Without any training?
Matt Sims
With no training at all. Nothing. Provided the car can tow it, you are allowed to. There have been no statistics reported at all. Nothing. So the whole 999 service group are campaigning together to see if they can pull the statistics together because the government evidently aren’t going to bother.
Keith Gooden
No news isn’t necessarily good news.
The change of the 2030 electric vehicle deadline
Keith Gooden
Let’s talk about our revered prime minister, Rishi Sunak, and those changing climate policies. Matt, what do they mean for us and our passion for motorhoming, caravanning and camping?
Matt Sims
Actually, nothing.
Keith Gooden
This news is proving to be a bit of a damp squib this week.
Matt Sims
It’s low value this week, I’m sorry. But yeah, so Rishi made an announcement that he’s going to kick the 2030 deadline five years into the future. Great vote winner. In reality, it doesn’t mean anything.
Keith Gooden
What are you talking about?
Matt Sims
Okay, so there is a policy that he didn’t talk about. And I checked this with Graham Cooper and some of my other EV mates who are experts in this field. And Graham said the ZEV mandate still remains.
Keith Gooden
What’s that?
Matt Sims
So by 2030, 80% of all new car sales must be non-fossil fuel. So that probably means EV. And it’s 70% for vans. By 2035, all new car sales must be fully electric, or certainly totally non-fossil fuel. And that hasn’t changed. So all that’s changed is that the five-year hybrid gap now becomes a five year ice gap. So let me explain that.
Keith Gooden
You’ve lost me.
Matt Sims
So by 2030, all car manufacturers have to be producing hybrids, so that would probably be electric and petrol. So diesel would be phased out. What Rishi has done is said, “No, we’re not going to do that.
You can keep making diesel vehicles up to 2035.” So you can still buy a brand new diesel car or diesel van up to 2035. That’s what he’s changed. In reality, though, if a car manufacturer hasn’t produced 80% of cars that are non-fossil fuel by 2030, they are fined £15,000 per car. So for the car manufacturers, they’re still going to go hybrid. Why would they do anything else?
Keith Gooden
So the manufacturers are still going to be manufacturing the cars even though the government has pushed to 2030 up 2035. So in reality, it doesn’t look like a lot is going to change.
Matt Sims
No, probably not. Those manufacturers that still have a diesel offering can still produce them, but it can only be 20% of their output. So as a consumer, your choice of diesel car is still going to be reduced. And I think it was a great headline for Rishi. People went, “Yeah, this whole EV move is being forced upon us,” and all that fear of change and so on, and it was kind of kicked into the long grass. In reality, nothing is going to change.
Keith Gooden
There you go. If you know different, contact us.
The NEC Motorhome and Caravan Show 2023
Keith Gooden
Let’s talk about the Motorhome and Caravan Show – 17th to the 22nd of October at the NEC. I must say, there are some sponsors joining us live at the show, Fiamma and GasStop, Motorhome Finance from Creative, and Solbio. Thanks to everybody at those companies for helping support the Motorhome Matt podcast at the big show at the NEC.
Matt Sims
Indeed. And we may have some others joining us as well. So we are going to be having our bright orange bags. They were really popular at previous shows. There was almost a bun fight to come and grab one. They’re orange tote bags, recycled tote bags. Brilliant for the weekly shop, I have to say. We’re still using ours. So make sure you come and grab one of those.
We’ve got 5,000 of them to give away this year. So come and grab one at the show. And if you’ve still not got your tickets, you can use the code MMATT to get a discount on your ticket price. Go to www.mcshow.co.uk and when you’re buying the ticket, enter the discount code MMATT. It’ll save you a few pounds on your ticket.
Keith Gooden
Yeah, that’s www.mcshow.co.uk, and use the discount code MMATT. We’re on stand 9.32B, and That Leisure Shop stand…
Matt Sims
Is 12.100. So the guys from the shop are there, Darren, and the lovely Jon Gooch from Life Beyond Bricks. So if you follow their channel, Jon is going to be working for us that week. And Jon’s a real expert when it comes to battery maintenance, battery charging and motorhome maintenance, and we’re there with Maypole.
So the standard is called Maypole at That Lesuire Shop on stand 12.100. So if you need some real technical expertise, you can go and speak to Jon and Darren and they’ll have a range of motorhome covers, caravan covers, toppers and a whole load of battery charging and really funky floodlights and torches. The wonderful world of Maypole products will be on sale on that stand.
Keith Gooden
Fantastic. And we will be recording and broadcasting some podcasts while we’re down there. I shall be down there on Wednesday and Thursday, and we’ll be recording. So I’m looking forward to that, then, Matt.
Matt Sims
Yeah, can’t wait. It’s going to be good to have you back on the show. Two days – more than enough.
Keith Gooden
You can tell I’m the one balancing the beach ball on my nose.
Matt Sims
Like a seal.
Keith Gooden
Looking forward to seeing you. It’ll be great to see you again.
Matt Sims
Someone will turn up and throw you a fish.
Keith Gooden
I do like a rollmop herring.
Matt Sims
So we’re there all week. And we’re recording content throughout the week. So I’m on the stand throughout the week and around the show. Lots of brilliant interviews lined up with manufacturers from across Europe. We’re actually really, really excited about it. And yeah, Keith will be there too. We’re going to do something live from the show. We’re going to try, aren’t we?
Keith Gooden
Yeah, we absolutely are. So pop along and say hello. We’d like to hear you on the podcast as well. That’d be great. I have all the gear but no idea.
Bailey’s brand new all-electric campervan prototype: The Endeavour EV
Keith Gooden
It’s the Motorhome Matt podcast brought to you by www.thatleisureshop.com. We are talking about Bailey and looking to the future in this podcast. This is exciting. Matt, explain, please.
Matt Sims
So Bailey of Bristol, a company literally down the road from us, have created and launched an E-Transit campervan. It’s called the Endeavour EV and it is an all-electric campervan. So it’s an electric drive train, no diesel, and it’s all electric inside.
Keith Gooden
Where can I buy one? When can I buy one?
Matt Sims
You can’t. It’s a prototype. So it’s an experiment. It’s a really exciting collaboration between Bailey and Ford Pro. The van is actually owned by Ford and Bailey have converted the back, but they haven’t just you know thrown the usual furniture in that you’d find in an Adamo or some other Bailey product. It is completely new. They have pushed the boundaries to levels I’ve never seen before in a motorhome or campervan. It is impressive.
Keith Gooden
So what we’re talking about here is a major manufacturer looking to the future – a bit of research and development. Am I right?
Matt Sims
That’s exactly what it is, but it is a tangible campervan. So you can actually go away in it and they’ve invited me to go off in it and have a holiday, which is very nice.
Keith Gooden
So it’s not just a blueprint on paper. It’s got wheels and a steering wheel.
Matt Sims
I was driving it yesterday. I’m the only journalist who’d driven it. They said, “Well, we haven’t asked anyone else,” because I’d asked, “What do other people have to say about it?” They said, “Well, no-one really has seen it or driven it. You’re the only one.” So we’re very privileged.
Keith Gooden
It sounds fantastic. So what is special about it?
Matt Sims
So it’s a two berth campervan with a big rear lounge area. It’s got a really spacious kitchen, loads of storage and a funky bathroom with the classic kind of Rolodex door that opens and closes. You’ll know what I mean if you’ve seen a campervan. You need to see it to understand what I’m talking about.
Keith Gooden
And by the way, we will have some YouTube content up on our YouTube channel where Matt takes a tour around it in detail.
Matt Sims
Yeah, absolutely. There’s a whole video there. So go and check that out. It’s released as this podcast is released. In fact, the whole thing has been embargoed until the release date with Bailey’s permission.
It’s out now, so you can go and see it. But what struck me most about the project was the environmental consideration in the design. So there are things like the worktops are made of recycled fridges and freezers. It’s amazing. The handles on the cupboards are made of recycled ocean plastic.
Keith Gooden
That’s plastic that has been taken out of the sea and recycled?
Matt Sims
I mean, how cool is that? I mean, what a great idea. The floor is made of cork, all recycled material in the floor. The fabrics are recycled cotton, many of them are. QAnd there’s leather in there, which of course is not recycled. It’s from an animal, obviously. It’s real leather. And of course it’s all-electric, so it’s completely gas free. No gas.
So it has an electric water heater from Truma. It has an electric compressor fridge from Thetford. It has an electric two ring induction hob. It has an electric microwave and grill. And all this is powered from the electric hookup, so it has a lead acid leisure battery for the 12 volt system.
One of the features I love about it as well is the Alexa. They’ve wired an Alexa into it. So you can completely control all the lights with your voice as well as the normal functionality of an Alexa, and that’s been integrated with an iPad into the van, so they’re really embracing modern technology. The heating is a bit lacklustre. They’ve gone with a Dometic roof aircon unit.
Keith Gooden
Why do you say that’s lacklustre?
Matt Sims
Well, it heats as well, but it’s never going to cut it on a cold winter’s day in November. Heat rises. So blowing it down is just an ineffective way of doing it. The floor is always going to be cold. But to be fair to Bailey, it’s a Dometic unit which is a great aircon unit and air cooling unit and conditioning, but it’s never really an effective way of adding heat to a van, certainly being the sole source of heat, but it’s the only option open to them.
There are no other heat pump options for campervans. So Bailey have gone with the only solution. There’s also an Avtex TV that drops down on the press of a switch – very cool. They’ve fitted an Avtex AMR aerial to the roof, so there’s Wi-Fi in it as well. And it is a very impressive bit of forward thinking, I think.
Keith Gooden
But you can’t buy one. It is a concept. It’s research and development for the future. But the good news is it does mean that when these motorhomes come to the market, they will have lots of experience of building and using them. You’ve been interviewing people at Bailey, haven’t you, Matt?
Why have Bailey built an all-electric campervan conversion?
Matt Sims
Yeah, I spoke to Nick Howard, one of the directors of Bailey, and asked him, “Why has Bailey done this?”
Nick Howard
We got into discussions with Ford about the Endeavour project. And they mentioned that they had a number of EVs in the country, and asked if we’d be willing to partner with them in developing an EV campervan.
Matt Sims
Now, obviously, you’ve got previous experience of building on the Transit through the Adamo, the coachbuilt, and of course, the very recently revealed Endeavour. But what were the biggest challenges of building on an electric platform?
Nick Howard
The electric platform that we’ve got here is essentially a four by four transit, and it has two floors. And in between the floors normally is a prop shaft going to the rear axle. But what Ford did for the EV vehicle is take the prop shaft out so it’s a front wheel drive only. And the void in between is where the battery pack is.
Matt Sims
And what challenges does that present you, then? Because obviously you’d normally be putting loads of fixtures and fittings and water tanks under the floor. How did you deal with that?
Nick Howard
You’re correct, we could put less under the floor. It hasn’t got a caravan step fitted because we would have to bolt straight through a battery pack, which isn’t a good idea. There are some regulatory challenges. We have to have an amount of low level ventilation in the vehicles for people to inhabit it, and we have to have high level ventilation as well to get an airflow.
Clearly, we can’t just go and put vent holes in the floor because it’s full of the battery pack. But we worked closely with our trade body, the National Caravan Council, to work out where we could put ventilation, and we’ve actually put it in things like the footwells. So there’s lots of technical challenges with this. And we were able to work very closely with Ford in generating their converter’s handbook, especially for EV and motorhome conversions.
Matt Sims
And when you were building it, did you take the batteries out? Because other manufacturers have had a go and they’ve removed the batteries when it was in the factory. Did you dare to do that?
Nick Howard
No, we left them alone. We’re very interested in the Ford system as a whole because it’s got an inverter fitted, and normally they’d like builders to plug in power tools to recharge them. And we wanted to know if we could use that inverter system to power some of the 230 volt appliances in the vehicle, so we’re very interested in integrating with the Ford battery pack, so we deliberately left it alone.
The two biggest challenges with an LPG-free vehicle are cooking and heating. I think the heating is going to be a bit of an easier journey for the industry because the cars are already doing that. Teslas now have heat pumps fitted and that’s quite common in the EV sector. And I think the suppliers to the leisure industry are looking at heat pumps as a heat source. But cooking is a whole different argument because an induction hob is a worthy alternative but uses so much power.
Matt Sims
You’ve fitted a leisure battery to it as well. What’s that powering?
Nick Howard
That’s powering the lighting system, which is all LED, and the pump as well. So it’s using the 12 volt systems.
Matt Sims
But why isn’t that using the EV batteries?
Nick Howard
Again, we’re just in this learning process with Ford into how much we can use because what you don’t want to do is drain it all down, and then the customer wants to go and drive somewhere and finds they’ve used all that their leisure battery power.
Matt Sims
No doubt one of the biggest questions that you’re going to get when this launches is about range. How do you think the future is going to pan out for EV vehicles and campervans? We want to go a long way and weigh a lot. How viable is this?
Nick Howard
Yeah, we’re not saying the range on this vehicle is good enough. Clearly it isn’t at the moment. But we want to try and understand. And I think a lot of that is asking consumers the same. What range would you like? What is acceptable? Is it 200 miles? Is it 300 miles? But it feels like that kind of ballpark to me.
And for the motorhoming I’ve done, when I’ve driven 250 miles, I’m pretty finished and happy to get into a campsite and put my feet up for a while. So is that reasonable? And I think generally that’s some feedback we’d like – what should we be striving for?
Matt Sims
We’re still a long way though, aren’t we, from EVs and vans and campervans especially becoming very commonplace. How far away do you think they are?
Nick Howard
Generally, I think, yeah, we’ve got a bit of a while to go. There’s certainly some work to do as well on the site infrastructure. People like the Caravan Club have introduced sites with on pitch and on site charging now at some of their facilities, again to go on this journey of learning about the future of EV motorhomes and tow cars.
But I think generally we’ve got a lot to learn about this, and the infrastructure has to catch up. Also, a lot of the campsites are in remote locations so they have small local substations. So if they wanted to put 30 on pitch charges, I think the substation would probably cough a bit.
Matt Sims
Well, I take my hat off to you, Nick, for giving this a go, because it’s a brave project. It’s a new dawn, isn’t it, for our industry? And innovation is often absent in this motorhome industry and caravan industry sadly, and it is hard to innovate. But I think you’ve absolutely smashed it. I think it’s great.
Nick Howard
Thank you very much. Yeah, it’s the direction of travel we’ve all got to go on, and we’re pleased to start this journey at Bailey.
Where are the batteries in the Endeavour EV?
Keith Gooden
That’s Nick Howard of Bailey talking to you, Matt. It is exciting, isn’t it?
Matt Sims
It is a really exciting step forward. Yeah. And I take my hat off to Bailey for taking the plunge. The fact that a leading UK manufacturer has done this, one of the things I love about it most is the collaboration between them and Ford, actually. We need more of that. Our industry needs more collaboration. I think it’s one of the only ways we’re going to see innovation. And I’m excited to see a big UK manufacturer doing exactly this.
Keith Gooden
Where do the batteries go?
Matt Sims
So the batteries are in the floor of the van. So normally there’s a prop shaft. The Transit’s a rear wheel drive vehicle. The E Transit – they”re all through the floor and the floor is full of them. So that was a challenge to Bailey. As Nick said, they couldn’t drill the floor. They left the batteries in when they built it. But that means the floor is really high.
Now, if you go and see one of these E-Transits – or the E-Transit, because there is only one – if you see it at the show or a future show, you will notice how high the floor is. It is a big step up, and Bailey have raised the floor further with their cork floor and no doubt there are some fixtures and fittings above the floor.
And they were very concerned about head height inside. I’m five foot 10, and I had a good probably four or five inches above my head. I don’t actually know what the internal head height is. But even for someone who’s six foot four, I reckon you could still stand proud in it. There is no issue with head height. And that was one of the concerns I had when I got in. I thought I was going to bang my head. No – surprisingly tall.
Keith Gooden
So if you’re six foot four and going to the NEC show, we’ll do a test on video, shall we?
Matt Sims
Yeah, well, it was fine for me. I had a big gap above my head. I’m sure I’m five foot 10.
Keith Gooden
But you and me are little people. That’s my Irish blood. I’m a leprechaun.
Bailey’s sustainability plan
Keith Gooden
Matt then spoke to Simon Howard, Nick’s brother, and the marketing director of Bailey.
Matt Sims
Simon, why has Bailey done this?
Simon Howard
Well, fundamentally, because it’s the right thing to do. We’ve got a sustainability plan. We carried out a full carbon footprint of our business, a cradle to grave carbon footprint, the life of a motorhome or a caravan. And those figures show that over half the carbon emissions in the lifetime of a motorhome are actually carried out by people using their vehicle.
A little bit of that is plugging into the mains or using the gas to heat it up during the winter, but the vast majority is driving the vehicle around. So clearly, looking at how the vehicle is powered is incredibly important. And looking at alternative sources to the current fossil fuel vehicles is paramount in order to help us reach our carbon reduction targets.
Matt Sims
And you’ve got a big target set for 2050 as a business, haven’t you? And I guess this is part of that, is it?
Simon Howard
Very much so, yeah. Yeah, I mean, we want to be net zero by 2050. Looking at the various areas where our carbon emissions come from, only about 12% is actually from the operations of Bailey. Us, we only account for 12%.
About a third is actually the energy required to make the components in the vehicle. And as I say, over half, the remaining half, is actually vehicles being used by their owners. So clearly, we’ve got to play our part in making ourselves a cleaner operation. And we’ve started that with looking at sustainable energy supply, LED lighting, solar panel provision in the buildings, that sort of thing.
That’s the low-hanging fruit. That’s pretty easy and straightforward to do. But moving forward, we’ve got to start making greener products. And we can do that by making them lighter, more aerodynamic and using renewable materials. But fundamentally, the key is how the vehicles powered. The biggest win we’re going to make in reducing our carbon footprint ishaving more sustainably powered vehicles such as electric.
Matt Sims
That’s admirable that you’re making these strides. but the PM’s announcement very recently, delaying that 2030 deadline out to 2035, what impact does that have on a project like this for you?
Simon Howard
Well, first of all, it is really disappointing. I mean, we are all going to have to pay for the mess we’ve created. It’s our responsibility. And delaying it by five years is not going to help. It’s not going to make it any cheaper. In fact, it might make it more expensive, because some of the actions we’re going to have to take will be more severe.
So it’s disappointing. And also I really feel for people like Ford who’ve come up with a business plan to be 80% electric by 2030 and are now being told, “Well, no, you’ve got to carry on with fossil fuel supply for another five years.” I think it’s just short-sighted.
And I applaud people like Nissan who say, “No, we’re going to carry on, and we’re going to be all electric by 2030 regardless.” From our point of view, you’ve got to carry on. We can’t delay this any longer. So no, we’re keen to continue to push forward with it because it’s inevitable. And it’s something that we do have to do.
Matt Sims
Well, this is a prototype, this vehicle, but when do you think we can buy one?
Simon Howard
Not at the NEC show in October, although you can certainly see it there! And we’d be really interested to find out what people think. The product development team is going to be there to get feedback from people on what they like and perhaps what they don’t like. So please come along and have a look. But fundamentally, realistically, we’re looking at about five to 10 years, I’d imagine, before a fully electric EV is available for customers to buy.
Matt Sims
You’re obviously very future focused. What I was really struck by is your investment in the people and the talent here. And you pointed to the team that designed it, who are a young dynamic team. Do you think it needs a project like this to attract talent into our industry?
Simon Howard
It doesn’t hurt. And certainly, the main drive for us in terms of our sustainability planning has been from within. It’s been from our younger employees who want to know what we’re doing and want to work for a company that has sustainability in mind for the future.
It doesn’t just mean products. We make exciting products. We’re selling a dream. We’re selling a lifestyle, we’re selling holidays and happy memories. And I think the thing people, particularly from a design perspective, like about working for us is that they actually have an end product. They’re not selling a service.
So they have something concrete. So when they go to the NEC show, they’re going to see a brand new Endeavour or an Endeavour EV on the stand, and they’ve produced something concrete. So no, I don’t think we have trouble attracting people. But certainly, something like this is not going to hurt.
Matt Sims
I love Simon’s passion about the next generation and bringing innovation to our industry. we so desperately need it. It’s not that we haven’t got it, but even recently at Caravan Salon walking around, we didn’t see a lot of innovation or a lot of new product. You know, there was some there, but we were kind of going, “Oh, there’s not a lot new happening.”
Keith Gooden
Isn’t that just from the pandemic where people weren’t working or were furloughed and things weren’t happening, and it’s now a few years later that we’re seeing the results of that?
Matt Sims
It could be. I think that could be easily an excuse. You know, there’s no time for that. We need to crack on. This change is coming. Despite what Rishi may have painted the picture as, “We’re delaying everything five years,” we’re not. The change is coming. We are going to be seeing all electric vans and all electric camper vans. But for them to work we need more innovation and development.
The interior design of the Endeavour electric campervan
Keith Gooden
And talking of that the design team for this at Bailey are on the young side, aren’t they? They are blue sky thinking.
Matt Sims
They are. Chloe and Claire are leading the design team and they are younger than you might expect. You know, designers to be. I joked with Simon that it used to be Doreen in accounts who designed the interiors with swirly creams and peaches. And he did make the point – he said, “Careful. That was my mum all those years ago,” but it’s true.
Yeah, our interiors have really come on. Look at what Bailey are doing now with their interiors – they’re nothing like they used to be. You look at the European manufacturers, and they’ve gone a step further, I think, in terms of designs, but Chloe and her team were given free range on this product and on the whole project, as it was a concept so they weren’t trying to make something that was commercially viable. And I asked to her what her key criteria for success were.
Chloe Bartlett
So we really wanted to push the boundaries when designing this vehicle because we thought it would be an exciting opportunity for Bailey to showcase, obviously, with the future of electric transit vehicles, that gave us the opportunity to do that. So starting with the EV layout, our original intention was to just use the Endeavour layout, but we saw an opportunity to incorporate a more playful modular seating area.
So that’s what we included. So it allows three different modes – a day mode, an office mode, and an evening mode, all done by adjusting the seating modular to make out what you need. In addition to this, we’ve incorporated a lot more tech into the van. We’ve got a CCT colour changing light system, Alexa controlled.
Matt Sims
CCT, what does that stand for?
Chloe Bartlett
Colour changing temperature. So that’s all incorporated into zones as well throughout the van. You’ve got your iPad in there as well. That controls it manually. And as well as that, we’ve obviously included a lot more finishes in sustainable materials.
Matt Sims
So I want to talk to you a bit more about the materials. Tell me about the worktops.
Chloe Bartlett
It’s a polygood material, which is a surface material made from old refrigerators and household appliances.
Matt Sims
Hang on. It’s a what material?
Chloe Bartlett
It’s a polygood material. It’s made using 100% recycled materials, so old refrigerators and household appliances, which is amazing, because the product, then, has a different kind of finish to it every time. You’ve got different colours coming through, which gives a really raw unique palette, which is nice for the kitchen.
Matt Sims
The door handles and the cupboard drawer handles – tell me about those.
Chloe Bartlett
Yes, so the handles are made from 100% reused ocean plastic, which is amazing because they’re black fittings, which is a really contemporary modern look, but obviously helping the environment at the same time. We wanted the van to replicate, obviously, the electric sustainable message through the materials used in the van as well.
Matt Sims
So it’s been one hell of a project. Now, tell me – how on earth did you source those materials?
Chloe Bartlett
So yeah, we had completely free rein on this project, which has been amazing. So we’re able to look at not just our everyday suppliers, but we looked online to source suppliers in the market that were using 100% recycled materials.
We’ve also incorporated this into our flooring. We’ve got flooring which is made from 100% recycled cork material, and even our fabrics as well are made from 100% recycled polyester. So yeah, it’s been really great. And the finished product, I think, works really well.
Matt Sims
And I love the imagery of this mood board. You’ve gone with very much a relaxed rainforest feel, it says here, and it really does come through in everything about the van inside, doesn’t it?
Chloe Bartlett
Yeah, it portrays that sustainable message that we wanted to deliver with the product. And I think you get encapsulated by that as soon as you enter the van, which is what we wanted.
Matt Sims
So Chloe, the biggest challenges in a pure EV campervan, other than range, have got to be cooking and heating. Firstly, tell me about the cooking solution that this van features.
Chloe Bartlett
Yeah, so we had to replace our current gas heated appliances in the kitchen with all electric ones. So we replaced our gas cooker with an induction hob and microwave oven grill. So it’s completely electric. And then the heating system as well – we also had to put in an aircon unit to replace the current gas heating system.
Matt Sims
So you’ve gone with a roof-mounted air cooling and heating system. People are going to say, “That is not going to keep me warm in November in Britain on a campsite,” let alone going to the north of Norway or something. It’s not there yet, is it? What conversations are you having with your supply chain about the innovation we need for this solution for heating a campervan?
Chloe Bartlett
Yeah, so we’re already having conversations with our suppliers in the background, because we’ve already highlighted this as a potential concern when we are developing this product in the future. So having these conversations now will hopefully give us a step in the right direction for when we come to do it.
Matt Sims
And what are these innovations that you think are viable for future Bailey projects?
Chloe Bartlett
So there’s been a lot of additional cost added to this product because there’s been no limitations. So sourcing the materials has added a lot of costs, because these 100% sustainable materials come obviously at a higher price.
So we’ll be working with our suppliers, now we know what’s available to us, on how we can potentially source these products and just implement even one fabric out of four from the scheme just to incorporate a little bit more of a sustainable material message. And then also with the lighting, we’ve taken learnings that we can replicate now into future products like this colour changing temperature system. That’s a bit of a mouthful!
Matt Sims
We’ll go with CCT.
Chloe Bartlett
CCT system. We’ve learned a lot from that that we can hopefully now roll out into future projects as well. And then with the Alexa system, I think we’ll be seeing that hopefully in the future. That’s something we’ll have to be working with our suppliers on to make it work and make it production friendly, I think.
Matt Sims
It’s a massive project, Chloe. It’s really exciting. But how does it make you feel as the designer?
Chloe Bartlett
Seeing the end product has been a really rewarding feeling. And I think it sends such a positive message out, and really tests us on what we can actually achieve and do. So we’re really excited to see it at the NEC in October and hear the response from the public.
How does the Endeavour EV drive?
Keith Gooden
That was Chloe Bartlett, the lead designer who as you say, was given free rein on this project. I talked about blue sky thinking, but you’ve seen it, you’ve driven it, Matt. Is it especially new or does it still conform to those traditions of the more conservative aspects of our passion, our hobby?
Matt Sims
Well, fundamentally, no, it is new. It doesn’t conform to tradition. It is all electric. And we are seeing gasless campervans and motorhomes being built by independent manufacturers. The thing for me was that this was a mainstream British manufacturer taking this plunge, and frankly, taking the risk.
I mean, they’ve invested a lot of money into this project. I don’t know how much exactly, but I bet it’s around a quarter of a million quid. In terms of R&D time, it’s a huge investment. And it’s the fact that they’re prepared to take that risk, push those boundaries and make the innovation happen in collaboration with Ford, another manufacturer that is prepared to take a step into the future.
It’s not perfect. This campervan is not perfect. How usable is it? Arguably not very. We’ll come on to range in a minute, because I’m sure that’s the question everybody’s got. But I think it’s brilliant that Bailey have taken the plunge, and I respect them for that.
Keith Gooden
And Bailey, of course, are royalty in the industry, aren’t they? So as you say, getting together with Ford is some partnership. Let’s talk about the range and let’s talk about the payload, because those are the important things. It weighs 3,500 kilogrammes, so it can be driven on a standard licence.
Matt Sims
Yes, absolutely. But the key is the batteries. They weigh in additional 752 kilos. So it makes it heavier than the diesel Transit by over three quarters of a tonne. So it means the payload is a woeful 178 kilos.
Keith Gooden
So you and I can get in it and we can bring a frying pan.
Matt Sims
You might have to leave the baked beans and the Pot Noodles at home. It’s not enough, is it? And Bailey acknowledged that this is not good enough. And they say if it was going into production, it will be built on a heavier 3,900 kilo E-Transit. But of course, you need a C1 to drive that at the moment.
It’s interesting that for E-vans, the restriction is 4.25 tonnes 4,250 kilogrammes. That hasn’t yet been applied to motorhomes because they don’t exist. But if it were, it would mean this product becomes very viable. So that extra 400 kilogrammes go straight on the payload. So we’d have over half a tonne to share of payload, which makes it really viable.
Keith Gooden
That makes a huge difference.
Matt Sims
You could you could bring all your Pot Noodles.
Keith Gooden
What about the real world range, then? Let’s get down to brass tacks. How far can I go in this new concept?
Matt Sims
Chloe is going to be on the stand at the NEC, the Bailey stand, and this is going to be her number one question, I have no doubt, Ford reckon with the weight of it as it stands, it is 108 miles. Now, when I got in it, it said 141 remaining. We drove it for 20 or 30 miles up and down the bypass here filming it. And it said, when I took it back, 127 miles, so more than the predicted range from Ford. It’s just not quite enough, is it, 108 miles?
Keith Gooden
And if you drive like a bit of an idiot, you’re going to get a lot less than 108 out of it. But as you say, if you drive sensibly, you can get a bit more in terms of range. So it’s going to get me to the campsite where I can hook up and charge. But if I’m wild camping – those words again – it’s not going to be so practical, is it?
Matt Sims
No. So the charging – we wanted to unpack this. So it’s interesting. An E-Transit takes just 35 minutes to charge back to 80% on a DC charger. So that’s a super fast charger. Not many of us have those at home, but you can pay for those in supermarkets. And we went to one in a pub locally, just to test it. And the first 80% is what takes the least time. The last 20% takes a lot longer to recharge an EV.
That’s a time for a coffee and a pee and a quick wander around the services shop or wherever you are. If you’re charging on an AC charger, so this is plugging in at home or plugging in on a campsite if you’re allowed to, it takes eight hours to recharge to 100%. So overnight.
So actually, if you don’t want to go very far in it, then it is viable. And provided you’re going to a destination where there is facility to either DC charge, a fast charge, or AC charge on a hookup, then it could be usable. So we’re not quite there yet, but it certainly feels, with battery technology improving, this could happen quicker than my prediction of 10 years.
How are the electrical appliances powered?
Keith Gooden
So it’s the battery technology that’s holding us back at the moment. And that is coming on leaps and bounds every year. But what about my leisure use? Can I draw the power from the batteries for your leisure? Or do I have to add even more weight?
Matt Sims
Yeah, so that’s a very good question. And I think eventually we’ll end up with the EV battery plant, as it were, and we’ll run everything from that. Bailey decided not to tap into those batteries because they would massively impact the range. And the range, they acknowledged, was already low, and they wanted it to be usable for testing and so on. So they have fitted a lead acid battery to it for the 12 volt lighting.
And everything else, the Alexa the TV – in fact, the TV was 12 volt as well. But the microwave, the induction hob – that’s all running on a hook up, so you’ve got to hook up to run all of those things. But ultimately, you will be able to run off the EV batteries. Interestingly, the one we were driving had no means of identifying when it was parked.
So the new E-Transit has a wiring loom that when you turn the handbrake on – the electric handbrake – it could turn on the rear batteries or the facility for the batteries to run the rear. And then when you turn the handbrake off, it will turn the rear off. Does that make sense?
Keith Gooden
Yeah, it does. So if you’re using if, say, for instance, if you’re a builder or perhaps a rescue vehicle, then when you stop the car, you’ll want to draw power for recharging your drill or charging batteries for a broken down car. So that’s what you’re talking about. When you’re driving, the extra electricity in the back isn’t turned on. As soon as you put the handbrake on, it switches it so you can then draw from it.
Matt Sims
Quite. But the E-Transit we were driving did have an inverter fitted in the back. Because it’s a work van originally, it has an inverter that means you can recharge a drill on it. But Bailey chose not to tap into that.
Keith Gooden
We’ve got to be careful, haven’t we, because this is a concept vehicle. They’re doing their best with what they’ve got. And we’re sort of reviewing it as if it’s for sale. It’s not. But it does show the research and development that, as I say, some of the great and the good in the industry are doing and it’s where we’re at now. It’s a snapshot. And as we said before, battery technology moves on, switching technology, inverters, solar panels – we might not be there yet, but we’re not far away.
Matt Sims
We’re not far, and lithium technology’s really come on, hasn’t it, with solar. People like Victron have really created massive systems. And you see motorhomes that are fully kitted out to be off grid for long lengths of time. And it is great to see this innovation. We’re not there yet. And, you know, it’s not viable, this particular product, for mass production yet, but what it does is it identifies the weaknesses and the opportunities for innovation. And the fact that Bailey have tried, and no doubt they will try again…
Keith Gooden
And they’re succeeding.
Matt Sims
They are succeeding, but we need manufacturers to try and make what might be perceived as mistakes. That’s how lessons are learned.
Keith Gooden
Before they get to the market.
Matt Sims
Yeah, absolutely. And this is what they’re doing. I’d say the bit that excites me as well is the fact there’s been some real collaboration between Bailey and Ford. Bear in mind, Bailey haven’t been building on motorhomes on a Ford for very long. And you know, this relationship’s advanced really quickly.
And I know how invested Ford are in the move to EV and seeing their badge on the fronts of motorhomes. So this is a real investment and testament to that relationship by both parties. And that’s what we need. We need our industry leaders to be prepared to try and try again and attract cutting edge talent with fresh ideas into our niche. We desperately need that. And I’ve no doubt that we will soon see other manufacturers following suit and begin to take those creative risks that are meaningful and future proof.
Keith Gooden
So you’ve heard the future here on the Motorhome Matt podcast this week. You can see the future as well on our YouTube channel, where you can see Matt driving this concept vehicle and looking inside, because it’s not just a shell. As Matt said, there’s an interior as well. So consume all you can from the Motorhome Matt podcast, because you will be some of the best-informed people in our industry.
Matt Sims
It’s also the only place to see it before the NEC show. So if you’re not going to the show, there’s nowhere else to see it. And we are the only media outlet with content on it, which is amazing. Thank you, Bailey. We really appreciate that. We are genuinely excited about it. I’m personally really excited about this development.
We’ll be doing some more content on it at the show. So yeah, stay tuned and keep watching YouTube and make sure you subscribe to us on YouTube as well, because that’s where you get alerts on new content that’s coming out there. And not only that – if you visit the Bailey stand you’ll see their new products.
So they’ve launched a whole range of campervans and coachbuilt motorhomes on the Ford Transit – vans with a pop roof. They’ve also launched a slimline coachbuilt motorhome. I got to go in one that was being photographed while we were at the factory. Island bed, front lounge. Slim, not terribly long, big garage. I have to say, I was impressed. It’s very good. It’s definitely worth checking out.
Audience Q&A
Keith Gooden
It’s the Motorhome Matt podcast brought to you by www.thatleisureshop.com. I’m Keith Gooden.
Matt Sims
And I’m Motorhome Matt.
Keith Gooden
Let’s get into our Q&A, questions and answers, as we do every week. You pose the questions and Matt – well, he gives the answers. First of all, Tony Flanagan has been in touch.
Can I modify the rear beds on my Auto-Trail?
Tony Flanagan
I have an Auto-Trail campervan with a rear bench seat made up as a double bed. I’m looking to modify it so I could fit one of those intersection beds so you can actually hinge the bed up and drop it back down again. Do you know where you’d be able to get something like that? Because I’ve actually struggled to find anything.
Keith Gooden
So that’s Tony. Can you help him with his bed, then, Matt?
Matt Sims
I would suggest Tony – I’m surprised you can’t find anything online. I would go to a campervan converter who is building stuff like this all the time and custom making it, and they would be able to make you something, I’m sure.
You basically need, as I understand it, a metal frame with bed slats in and the extra cushions. And you’ll find a converter that could build that for you. I doubt you’re going to find that Auto-Trail have something unless there’s something that exists in their layout that you could purchase. But I would suggest going to a VW van converter, for example, and seeing what they can make for you.
Keith Gooden
Thanks, Tony. By the way, when you pose your questions, it would be nice if you said where in the country you’re from.
Do you provide training on how to drive a motorhome at your hire company?
Keith Gooden
David Eade is in Cardiff. And he asks Matt, “Hi, as part of a motorhome rental, do you provide a bit of training around how to manoeuvre and drive, etc.?”
Matt Sims
We used two years ago when probably we had fewer motorhomes and more time. Traditionally, we don’t get in the motorhome with you. Although that’s not to say we wouldn’t. So we do have handover videos where I do go on a drive.
It was in the middle of lockdown in the countryside and the roads were empty. And I was filmed driving, giving some hints and tips on what to look for in your mirrors and so on. But if you wanted to go on a drive with one of the team, I’m sure we can arrange that with you, yeah.
Keith Gooden
Thanks, David, for that one.
Will reverse polarity affect my leisure battery?
Keith Gooden
Nigel Lewis is in north Wales. And he’s wondering, “Does reverse polarity affect my leisure battery?” He says, “I’m in France and a few sites have reverse polarity.” What’s he talking about, Matt?
Matt Sims
So this is where – traditionally on the continent, but it can happen anywhere – the live and neutral are wired the wrong way round. Live is on the neutral, and neutral’s on the live. Now, it would mean if something shorted out, the trip might go. But the live is still alive because it’s going down the neutral, because the trip is normally only on the live. Make sense?
Keith Gooden
It does make sense.
Matt Sims
So safety first, really. Would it affect your leisure batteries? Probably not. If you’ve got a Sargent electronic system in the motorhome, so you’ve got a British built motorhome, there’s usually a light on it that tells you you’ve got reverse polarity and it will correct it. If you watch our Europe guide, I talk about this in there.
If you go to www.thatleisureshop.com/europe, you’ll get to the Europe guide. And you can download a guide on going to Europe and the little adapter that I made that fixes the reverse polarity. So I don’t think it would damage your leisure battery.
It’s not really going to technically damage anything other than perhaps you if something went wrong. So you’re right. Some campsites are still – my experience is that it’s been one in 10 – have reverse polarity so it’s worth getting the little adapter to fix it, and more importantly, the tester that tells you that everything’s good or whether the polarity is reversed.
Keith Gooden
There you go Nigel. Hope that’s been of some help.
Ask Matt your question
Keith Gooden
If people want to get in touch to ask a question, what should they do, Matt?
Matt Sims
It’s really easy. Just go to mhmp.info/askmatt. Fill in the form, or we love it if you would record your question on the orange button. And as Keith says, please tell us where you are in the country. We love to put a pin in the map.
Keith Gooden
We do, absolutely. mhmp.info/askmatt to record your question. And don’t worry, we will edit it if you make mistakes or um and ah. We won’t put your mistakes in. You can also leave us a review. What do they need to do for that then, Matt?
Matt Sims
Just go to mhmp.info/review.
Keith Gooden
And lastly, but not leastly, what do people need to do if they want to share with a friend?
Matt Sims
Well, if you could send the episode you’ve listened to to someone you know that might find it useful, we would love that. It helps spread the word of the podcast and grow the audience and hopefully can serve someone who might have some questions like you do.
