Keith Gooden: In today’s episode of the Motorhome Matt podcast…
Matt Sims: We find out how a prominent motorhome and caravan manufacturer reacts to an industry slowdown.
Keith Gooden: In the news, That Leisure Shop at Chelston Motorhomes is now open.
Matt Sims: And we answer your questions on tracker batteries, licenses, weights and winter heating.
Keith Gooden: Welcome to the Motorhome Matt podcast. I’m Keith Gooden.
Matt Sims: And I’m Motorhome Matt.
Keith Gooden: Industry insights and expert advice for the world of motorhomes, caravans and campervans. And it’s brought to you by www.thatleisureshop.com and sponsored by Ripe.
Matt Sims: Now remember, please do follow on your favourite podcast app. Or if you’re watching on YouTube, click subscribe and the little bell.
Keith Gooden: Our product of the week – Think Diesel. Well, what in the flaming hell is that then, Matt?
Matt Sims: This is a Think Diesel. So this stops you misfuelling your diesel vehicle, car, van, whatever it might be, by putting unleaded in it. Shall I show you how it works? They come in these darkened packets.
Keith Gooden: So you’re used to them, aren’t you? So hang on a second. But when you open the fuel filler cap, it says on it what fuel you’re supposed to put in.
Matt Sims: It’s too easy to get wrong, isn’t it? You can just pick up the green pump in error, you know? YYou’re in a hurry. Shove it in the hole. And the thing is, you can get an unleaded pipe into a diesel filler point. It’s easy to do. So this stops. It’s a visual and audible reminder. So I’m going to show you how it works.
Keith Gooden: Show me how it works.
Matt Sims: I’ll open one.
Keith Gooden: Open your dark packet. Here we go. It’s opening.
Matt Sims: Oh look. It’s in a black bag inside.
Keith Gooden: A dark packet. He tells the truth.
Matt Sims: How exciting. It’s going to do it again. It’s going to do it again. So use double sided tape. It comes with tape.
Matt Sims: I love the voice.
Keith Gooden: Well, I was going to say that. Where do they go for the voiceover? I don’t want to be rude or anything, but, you know… Stop. Diesel. Remember, diesel!
Matt Sims: It’s a good script. So it’s light sensitive. So you stick this on the inside of your fuel filler cap, and then when you open it, the sun hits it and off it goes. It shouts out, “Use diesel!” So you go, “Oh, yeah. Diesel. Oh, no, it’s the green one.’ Don’t do that. Go for the black one.
Keith Gooden: So you’ve ruined that one?
Matt Sims: No. So now you cover it up, put it in the dark so you close the flap. The next time you open the flap, off it goes again. So it resets. And it does this every time you open the filler flap. Now, when the battery goes flat, which it will…
Keith Gooden: The battery in this.
Matt Sims: Yeah. Unfortunately you can’t replace it. So it’s going to do it a second time. You have to bin it. And they can be recycled. So put them in your plastic recycling and buy another one. But they are a lifesaver for misfuelling. So bear in mind the RAC will charge you £250 just to come out if you’ve had a misfuel. Plus you’ve wasted the fuel that’s gone into the vehicle and then you’ve got to refuel, plus any damage that you’ve potentially done to the engine. And you could write an engine off by misfuelling a diesel engine. So it’s really important you don’t do it. Unleaded eats away at all the rubber seals inside the engine.
Keith Gooden: So for this peace of mind, for this reminder… how much?
Matt Sims: £4.99 and free delivery. They’re normally £5.99. But we have a special offer on at www.thatleisureshop.com. They are just £4.99. What a bargain.
Keith Gooden: Just less than a fiver and free delivery.
Matt Sims: And you could save thousands of pounds if you were to get it wrong. This will remind you and keep you on track.
Keith Gooden: At www.thatleisureshop.com.
Matt Sims: That’s it. Pop in store or pop online and grab one.
Keith Gooden: Stop. Diesel. Remember. Diesel.
Matt Sims: It does sound a bit like you.
Keith Gooden: Let’s talk about That Leisure Shop at Chelston. It’s a new branch, isn’t it, Matt?
Matt Sims: Yeah. Chelston Motorhomes. Their shop has become That Leisure Shop and it is officially open, so our team are in there. We’re refitting it. We’ve painted the whole shop grey. We’ve lowered all the lighting.
Keith Gooden: Not orange?
Matt Sims: Not orange. No, I think that was Chelston’s fear, that we were going to make everything orange. No, it’s gone grey. So it looks a lot like a bigger version of our shop in North Somerset in Hewish, if you’ve ever visited. The shop space at Chelston is much larger. They’ve had a shop there for decades and we’ve taken it over, so we are stocking it with That Leisure Shop products, a whole range of new SKUs, as we call them. So a new product line’s going into the shop.
Keith Gooden: SKUs?
Matt Sims: SKUs. I can’t remember what it stands for in retail. That’s what we call the product code. And so a whole new range of products is going in. And it’s getting a big dose of fresh air, a real freshen up and bringing it up to date. And we are running the shop. So if you are passing, we’re junction 26 of the M5. As we record this episode and release it, that junction is closed, so you have to access it via Taunton at Junction 25 or junction 27. But mid-September it is due to open. Junction 26 will reopen and you can get to the shop really easily.
Keith Gooden: They’re reopening it just in time for the holiday season to finish.
Matt Sims: Just in time for the holiday to finish. Yeah! And our open weekend! So we have a big weekend – our official opening weekend – the last weekend in September. We’re going to be open the Saturday and the Sunday. Normally we’re closed on a Sunday, but we’re there all weekend. There’ll be a barbecue. The whole team will be there. I’ll be there as well. So do pop along. There’ll be some great offers, some giveaways, competitions and of course, take a look at Chelston’s range of motorhomes for sale too. So it’s going to be a great weekend. I can’t wait. But if you’re passing before, we are open now. It is That Leisure Shop, but there’s still some work going on in the shop as we refit and redecorate and restock. So at the moment it’s a bit chaotic, so bear with us, but I can’t wait to see you there.
Keith Gooden: And fabulously placed for the future for the motorhomers going down and coming back from the southwest
Matt Sims: It’s brilliantly placed. We’re literally on the cusp of North Devon. I was criticised for calling it North Devon. It’s not. It is Somerset. We’re just south of Taunton in Wellington, just off junction 26, in a place called Chelston within Chelston Motorhomes. So can’t wait to see you there.
Keith Gooden: I love Wellington cheese.
Matt Sims: It’s a good cheese.
Keith Gooden: Oh, it’s better than good.
Matt Sims: I like Wellington boots. Don’t eat one though.
Keith Gooden: Okay, let’s delve into today’s topic. The main part of the Motorhome Matt podcast for this week – what are we talking about, Matt?
Matt Sims: We are talking about how a motorhome and caravan manufacturer responds to a market downturn. Now, we all know how consumers react. We’ve seen screen prices getting heavily discounted. We’ve seen special offers. We worry that if we buy a new one now, what if the price crashes? Will the prices come back down? The market has slowed down. We acknowledge that.
Keith Gooden: Is it all about price, though?
Matt Sims: It’s not all about price. So there’s a back end to this, the supply chain issue and a manufacturing issue. We also have heard a lot, and we know every week, about how dealers are dealing with this. And we’ve seen in the news dealers closing, going bust, giving up, running out of cash. And we’ve touched on this a lot, haven’t we, in our conversations here as to why that happens and what’s going on.
Keith Gooden: It’s all about price, isn’t it?
Matt Sims: It’s all about price.
Keith Gooden: It’s the price of the things has gone..
Matt Sims: They’ve gone through the roof, but they are still selling. And there are huge offers on. There’s overstock, oversupply. We know all of that. But for the manufacturer, the behind the scenes bit, we never really hear about. In fact, I have never heard a motorhome or caravan manufacturer open up about what’s going on for them. And some people say, well, I don’t really care, but actually they have a massive impact on what we’re going to get next year. So what’s the impact for them? So I invited Bailey of Bristol in, the prolific motorhome and caravan manufacturer, long established. I invited Simon Howard, who’s one of the brothers that own Bailey, to come into the studio for a chat to talk about how they respond to a market downturn. Simon, a very warm welcome to the Motorhome Matt podcast. Thank you so much for coming in. It’s great to see you.
Simon Howard: Thanks, mat. Delighted to be here. Finally meet you in the bunker.
Matt Sims: The bunker?
Keith Gooden: In deepest, darkest North Somerset.
Matt Sims: Well, of course, we’ve met many times before, but it’s your first time here in the studio.
Simon Howard: First time here. Not the first time on site, but the last time I came here it was in the olden days when this was Mendip Caravans.
Matt Sims: This was Mendip Caravans many years ago. We still get post coming here for mended caravans. How long ago was that? 20 years?
Simon Howard: It was about that. They became Discover Leisure. But yes, Mendip Caravans, a big, big dealership owned by Jim Shrubsall who obviously was a sales director at Bailey. We’ve got a lot of links to this place.
Matt Sims: Oh, well, have a reminiscent walk around! Anyway, Simon, thanks again for coming in. It’s great to have you. We are talking about how an industry downturn or a market downturn has an impact for you, a manufacturer. I’ll be honest, it’s not something we as consumers hear about very often, in fact probably ever. So you’re in the spotlight.
Simon Howard: Great!
Matt Sims: I’ll be gentle with you, I promise. Can we start by talking about caravans? Our first episode this year, 2025, was “Do Caravans Have a Future?” And I think they do. I love a caravan. I know I’m Motorhome Matt, I’m not Caravan Colin, but caravans definitely have a place. I’ve had several. In fact, they’ve all been Baileys, you’ll be pleased to know. And they’ve been great for us as a family. And they were sort of a time in our motorhoming and caravanning life where they were the perfect solution. But caravan sales are in decline, aren’t they?
Simon Howard: They’ve certainly slowed. Yeah, they have declined for a while now. And we’re sort of really following the trend of Europe, where people are moving from caravans to to motorised products. Interestingly, looking at our warranty surveys for last year, 40% of our new motorhome owners owned a caravan previously. So in many instances where we’re selling to the same people, they’re just buying a different type of vehicle.
Matt Sims: And is that the case then for you with your audience, that they are evolving from a caravan into a motorhome?
Simon Howard: Yes. We’re finding that. Sometimes they go back, they decide motorhomes or campervans are not for them. But certainly the trend seems to be people moving towards motorised as opposed to caravans. But caravans, we believe, still have a future. There are two different types of vehicle that really allow you to enjoy two types of different holiday, possibly in the same place. So they both have their pluses and minuses, and we remain committed to the caravan market and we think it has a strong future. An interesting couple of tidbits for you. First of all, one of the strongest sectors in the market at the moment is pre-owned caravan sales – really strong at the moment. Retailers are struggling to get hold of second-hand caravan stock because they’re finding a lot of people moving away from the two-week summer package holiday in southern Europe, which is competition for a lot of entry-level caravan customers. That’s really our competition. That’s the market we’re up against. But the cost of package holidays has risen. And also it’s not a one-off now – we’ve had another very, very hot summer. Temperatures in southern Europe are 40 plus degrees, which for a lot of people is pretty unbearable. And it means you probably can’t really enjoy the holidays as much as you like. So people are looking to holiday in different places, perhaps. Perhaps the Benelux countries, Belgium, Holland, their beaches or going to Scandinavia. And also they’re looking to go at different times of year, which really suits our products, our caravans, motorhomes and campervans. So we’re really encouraged that pre-owned caravan sales are on the up because from a manufacturer’s point of view, if there’s a shortage of pre-owned product, that will help the new sales because people can’t get pre-owned, or the retailers will be more in a position to offer better deals on new caravans because they’re short of used stuff. So it is normally the used market is buoyant. That will help the new market afterwards.
Matt Sims: And do you think we’re still attracting people to the pastime of caravanning?
Simon Howard: We are, yeah. I mean, perhaps not in the numbers we once were. Obviously it’s a big outlay.
Matt Sims: One can be a very affordable holiday, can’t it?
Simon Howard: It can be, it can be. But it’s obviously a long term investment. It is a big outlay initially. And that’s probably the stumbling block with household incomes being stretched at the moment for a variety of reasons. It’s harder to outlay that sort of money, but when you look at it over three years, it does compare favourably with the package holidays.
Matt Sims: And you’re right, we are in a difficult landscape. And what I want to do today is get the manufacturer’s take on this landscape, which is really often inaccessible to the consumer. Because we hear from dealers, and consumers have a view of the dealer’s experience and what they’re going through. But we don’t really have any insight into what the manufacturer is going through. So let’s unpack this a bit. We have the big issue of overstocking. So we see dealer forecourts where there are way too many products on the forecourt, and that’s been cited as a big reason that dealers are struggling. Is that because you’ve been overproducing in the post-pandemic boom and so the dealers have had to take stock? We hear reports from dealerships moaning that they’re forced to take stock from a manufacturer because you don’t want it, because it blocks up your factory lines. You need it on forecourts. You need it to be selling. But is that what’s causing the overstock, coupled with a slowdown in the market?
Simon Howard: Quite a bit to unpack!
Matt Sims: There is a lot to unpack there.
Simon Howard: But I’ll try and answer all the various points. But fundamentally, yes, there is overstocking by the manufacturers and perhaps collectively we’re guilty of not turning down the wick quick enough. It’s a little bit easier with caravans because that’s more of a closed market. Fundamentally you’ve got five manufacturers in the UK really, four of which are UK-based. But with motorhomes and campervans, the market’s much, much bigger than that. It’s 5 or 6 times as many manufacturers. And getting them all to point their ducks in one line at one time is quite difficult. But it has been very much feast and famine. During Covid, you couldn’t get them. After Covid we couldn’t get enough. And now we’ve carried on producing perhaps at a level that’s too high, which means there’s excessive stock in some areas and some products. I would say caravans have probably gone through the correction process now. I mean, looking at our stocks on caravan sites, we’re about a third of what we were this time last year. So we’re optimistic with caravans that we’ve got the right balance. And we know that our main competitors are in a similar sort of position. But with motorhomes certainly there is too much stock. But as I say with 30 plus manufacturers, it’s very difficult to coordinate everything at one time. But at the moment, while the market is still growing, it’s important to remember with motorhomes, looking at the NCC figures, registrations year to date are 3% up, which is great news. Not as much as it has been, but it is still growing. But at the moment there’s too much stock. There’s more than enough stock to soak up that growth. So the manufacturers have had to turn down the heat on motorhomes as well as caravans going forward. From a Bailey point of view, obviously traditionally with Bailey caravans, we’ve been making them since 1948. We’re relative newcomers to the motorised sector. We started with motorhomes in 2011. Campervans was a couple of years ago. So caravans are a big part of our business still. So when there’s a downturn in that market, it affects us across the whole company. In terms of, if you like, the nuts and bolts of the finances, maybe I should just explain to your audience how the margin structure works. As a manufacturer fundamentally it’s a numbers game. Okay. So we’re volume. We generally make a lower margin. Your audience may not believe this. We make a lower margin on a large number of units. And that factory we have at South Liberty Lane that you visited a couple of times just up the road…
Matt Sims: That I grew up next to!
Simon Howard: That you grew up next to and threw stones through our windows when you were growing up…
Matt Sims: That’s not true!
Simon Howard: Not true. It was never proved. Never proved.
Matt Sims: I never got caught.
Simon Howard: Never got caught. That’s a fixed cost to us each day to run. So that’ll be employing all the people, turning on the power, the heating, etc. – it’s a fixed cost to us whether we make one vehicle or we make ten, or we make 20 or 30. But each year what we do is we’ll go to our retailers and ask them what their appetite for product for the year is, and they’ll give us a volume. And we’ll plug that in and we’ll base all our costs on that number. But if for whatever reason we make less, we’ve got fewer units to divide that fixed cost over. So therefore we have a reduction in margin, which, you know, potentially can lead to financial difficulties. There’s two ways out of that. One is we can increase the price.
Matt Sims: Increase the retail price?
Simon Howard: Yes, the retail price for the customer and just charge more for the fewer units you’re making. Yeah. But at the moment we don’t think that’s an option. We think our products are expensive enough as they are. They’re a high value ticket item, and we don’t feel customers are in a position to accept higher-priced products. So we’ve ruled that out. And if I can have a little plug for us, I’m pleased to say for the season ahead, we’ve kept all the prices are the same because we think that’s important.
Matt Sims: Interesting. I wanted to ask you that. So prices for Bailey products will be the same?
Simon Howard: The Adamos, the Aloras, the Endeavour campervans and the Unicorn and the Alicanto – same price.
Matt Sims: Interesting.
Simon Howard: Because we’ve got to offer customers value for money.
Matt Sims: So equally, then, the price is not going to come down because there’s a lack of buyer confidence, which we’ll come to later, where people have a fear of buying a new one now because the price is going to drop next year. This is perceived to be a bubble that we’re in. This is a temporary inflation of price. But what you’re saying is, in the short term at least anyway, or even the medium term, it’s not. Do you think prices will ever come down?
Simon Howard: Potentially further down the track. But at the moment, because we’re making fewer units, it’s unlikely that we’re going to reduce the price because that will erode our margin.
Matt Sims: So you’ve chosen to make a thinner margin, keep retail prices the same. And we’ll talk about focus on costs. So cutting your production costs. But the point is the retail price is fairly fixed.
Simon Howard: It’s fairly fixed for now. But to be fair, we’re under less pressure at the moment from suppliers for price increases. So that’s pretty good. The energy prices, they’ve sort of stabilised – labour costs. Yeah. There or thereabouts. But they’ve not changed as they did in the 2 or 3 years after Covid.
Matt Sims: Now, one of the big things you did as well was you combined your production of product.
Simon Howard: Yeah, yeah. This is sort of the second way of protecting your margin, if you can’t increase the prices – reduce your cost base.
Matt Sims: And how have you done that? Talk us through what you’ve been doing.
Simon Howard: It’s been something that’s been underway for about 18 months. So it’s been an ongoing process. And it remains a continuous process because to increase our margins or to get them back to where we want them to be, we’ve got to be a lower-cost operation. We’ve got to be a leaner operation. It’s called rightsizing the business – this is the terminology they use for it. Given the new levels of market demand, we’ve got to make sure we’re the right size for that level of demand, and there’s lots of ways you can go about it. One of the first things we did was we combined our coachbuilt motorhome and caravan manufacturing lines. Prior to that, we had three separate lines. One made motorhomes, one made caravans and one made campervans. Campervans we’ve left well alone because it’s a completely different process. It’s a conversion process. But again, without wishing to offend any of your audience, manufacturing a coachbuilt motorhome is fundamentally the same.
Matt Sims: Yeah, we accept that.
Simon Howard: Motorhomes are a little bit more complex because you’ve got the cabin, you’ve got the interface with the cab, whereas the caravan, you’re actually creating the entire box. But fundamentally a lot of the skills or the processes, a lot of the materials, they’re the same. So making them on the same line with the same people isn’t much of a challenge.
Matt Sims: So that reduces your headcount then by – what, a third?
Simon Howard: No, not that much. What it allowed us to do – what it meant was we could release our temporary staff initially. So they went. So we managed to retain all the full-time staff and put them on the one line, which is good because you had the concentration of talent there to build the products. So certainly it helped us and also helped the retailers because rather than firing out motorhomes and caravans at the same time to them, they’re getting them alternately now. So they’re getting gaps between deliveries of products. It means availability for individual products is extended because we’re not making them as often as we did. So again, from their point of view, it gives them a bit of respite and allows them to focus on clearing through the stocks they’ve got on site at the moment. So it certainly helped them. But it was clearly a cost reduction exercise. So that was the first initiative. And we did that at the end of last year, the beginning of the 2025 sales season. Since then, we’ve just looked at generally a cost reduction exercise across the business, and this is looking at the usual channels. This is looking at making yourself more efficient, reducing waste, reducing warranty costs, cutting out unnecessary expenditure. And they’re simple things to do. Sometimes they take a while to take effect. So they’re quite simple to do. But the biggest cost to us, perhaps unsurprisingly, is our headcount, our staff, our people. We employ a lot of people. We’re at 475 at the moment. So ultimately, if you want to make significant reductions to your overall costs, you have to reduce the headcount. And regrettably, that’s the process we’ve been through at the beginning of this year, which is a very difficult process. We’re a family business, and Nick and I always take it very personally when we have to ask people to leave. But it’s a robust process. It’s very fair. Everyone gets treated properly. So it’s not like you sling your hook. It’s a proper process, but it hurts when you do that. But we’ve been through that process and while it’s been painful, it’s necessary to secure the financial security of the business and protect the jobs of the people who remain. So we’ve been through that process now, and now we’re just very much looking at the other areas. We talked about ongoing improvements, but we feel now we’re in a better shape as a business to face up to the challenges of the market going forward in its new guise.
Matt Sims: Yes.
Simon Howard: And hopefully that all makes sense!
Matt Sims: That was a very long answer.
Simon Howard: A long answer.
Matt Sims: It’s quite a complicated question.
Simon Howard: I hope everyone’s still awake!
Matt Sims: It’s really insightful. So can we talk about how you sell your product to a dealer? And what happens when a dealer has stock and the dealer isn’t selling it? It’s not your fault. That’s just the market or the dealers not doing a very good job, but ultimately that dealer goes bust. So can we look at perhaps some of the reasons why? So I’ve used the word curtailment. Perhaps you could explain why those payments exist. So how do you sell to the dealer fundamentally? And then what happens to that stock when that dealership closes?
Simon Howard: Sure. Yeah. Unfortunately, we’ve had a number of dealer failures over the last 12 to 18 months. I would say probably more on the caravan side than the motorhome side, because obviously the caravan market has been a bit tougher than the motorhome side, but it’s not exclusively caravans. In terms of how we sell vehicles to a retailer, we don’t accept checks or cash or bits of coloured glass. What they do is they’ll set up a stocking plan, which is a bit like a credit card basically, with a finance house. And basically every time we dispatch a product to them, it’s put on that stocking plan and it remains on the stocking plan until they hand it over to the customer and they pay it off to the finance house.
Matt Sims: And just explain, that stocking plan has so many days to exist, doesn’t it? Just unpack that for our listeners and viewers – they have so long to pay for it and they’re buying it themselves. And this is what causes the problem.
Simon Howard: Yeah. Much like your credit card, if you clear it at the end of the month, there’s no interest. But if you can’t pay it at the end of the month, then you have to pay interest the following month. So it’s a very similar sort of way. As a manufacturer, we factor it into the price, but we include so many interest-free stocking days for them. So if you like their display models, the products they have on the site at the beginning of the season to show the customer, that will be typically 300 days. They get interest-free stocking on that. And then this season we’re offering 180 free stocking days on anything else. So that’s the period that they effectively have them on there.
Matt Sims: So the dealers can have that stock there for six months.
Simon Howard: Correct.
Matt Sims: And if they haven’t sold it in six months…
Simon Howard: Then they have to start paying interest charges to the finance house.
Matt Sims: So you’re ringfenced from that by the finance house. They are taking responsibility for it. But ultimately, if a dealer goes bust and they can’t afford those repayments, the stock goes back to the finance house, but they don’t want it. They’ve got nowhere to put it. They come back to you.
Simon Howard: Exactly. That’s the relationship.
Matt Sims: So what happens to that stock then?
Simon Howard: Okay. Yeah. You’re right. We have an arrangement with the finance house. We will buy it back – obviously at trade price – from them. And then really… it’s not a great thing for us. It’s obviously bad news for the retailer, but we get punished in three ways, really. First of all, we have to buy it back. And then we have to try and sell it to another Bailey retailer. Typically, the product may have aged, it may not be factory fresh, so we’ll probably have to sell it at a discount.
Matt Sims: And by this point it could be a year old as well.
Simon Howard: Exactly. So it could be a year old, or it could be a previous season’s product as well. So you’re going to have to sell it at a discount. So there’s some margin loss there. It also means that the retailer is sadly no longer in business. Any forward orders they had will obviously be cancelled because you can’t supply those anymore, so you lose that volume. You’ve got to try and find someone else to take that.
Matt Sims: So now you’ve got two lots of product in your yard.
Simon Howard: And then thirdly, the retailer who’s brought the product from us at a discount, he or she may well not want the stuff they had on order from us.
Matt Sims: Because they’ve not got room for it.
Simon Howard: Or they’ve got a discount, they’ll say, “We’ll just take ten off what I was going to have anyway,” because they’re going to struggle. So the other ten, when they’ve got ten that are available, are at a better price.
Matt Sims: So this product kind of has to flush through the market. And it does so at a lower price. So does that justify then why some of the screen prices are so reduced because they maybe have been bought from another dealership stock that went into liquidation? So that new dealer essentially has bought it at a knockdown price. So they can resell it at a knockdown price.
Simon Howard: Absolutely correct. Yeah.
Matt Sims: But doesn’t that devalue your product?
Simon Howard: From a marketing point of view, from a brand perspective – yeah, no, it does.
Matt Sims: It’s a nightmare.
Simon Howard: It is. And obviously, it makes it difficult for other retailers who don’t have the distressed stock – their product, looking at the window price looks a lot more expensive.
Matt Sims: The same product, essentially.
Simon Howard: But in all these cases, the product’s been made. And as you rightly say, it’s got to flush through. And from our point of view, the quicker that’s done, the better. And certainly on caravans this year, this season, that’s been very much the case. But that market’s now stabilised. Our stock of caravans is about a third of what it was this time last year. And we believe our competitors are in a similar sort of position, production wise. We’re looking at low levels again next year. So I think caravans – the supply will probably be back in check. But motorhomes, while the market is still growing, there is still an excess of stock generally in the network. And as I say, that’s a little bit harder to manage because you’ve got so many different manufacturers operating in the UK market and only about half of the vehicles registered in the UK are manufactured by UK manufacturers.
Matt Sims: And this time of the year is when the manufacturers launch new product for 2026. As we record this, it’s summer 25 and you’ve just had your dealer launch days and you are launching new product. Have you got an exclusive you can’t tell me about?
Simon Howard: No, no, I’m going to tell you nothing.
Matt Sims: So Bailey are launching a new product in 2026. When can people see it?
Simon Howard: Probably the best time would be the NEC show in October. That’s where you get the best chance to see the full product.
Matt Sims: What can you tell us about it? I’m not saying anything. I mean, I know what it is, but I’m not allowed to say! I’ve been sworn to secrecy.
Simon Howard: Neither am I.
Matt Sims: Okay… it’s a three wheeled caravan, or motorhome even?!
Simon Howard: Well, we’ve got a number of exciting new products for the season ahead, and we believe in a challenging market. That’s the best thing we can do – bring out new, innovative products that encourage people to buy. We’ve introduced our Phoenix and Pegasus caravan ranges. They were launched a couple of weeks ago and they’ll be arriving at dealerships now. They’re updated versions of the same product. I’m pleased to say the return of the much-loved Autograph motorhome range will come this autumn. That was a very popular pre-Covid. That’s based on the Stellantis, the Peugeot cab with the AL-KO chassis, the Alde heating. So top-end motorhome – very popular. But we haven’t been able to make it for a while because we were unable to secure the cabs from Stellantis.
Matt Sims: I wanted to ask you that. So, yeah, Stellantis kind of imploded with supply. So for you, that was Peugeot Boxers, and for many others it’s Fiat Ducato. How is that now? Has that supply chain issue gone away?
Simon Howard: Largely, yes. They fallen in love again with our market. I think they moved to other areas maybe to supply Mr. Bezos with delivery vans.
Matt Sims: I think it was all Amazon. And who could blame them? You know, “We want 10,000 vans that are all grey and all the same.”
Simon Howard: We’re so needy, us converters, aren’t we? We have different colours, different specs. But no, no, they’re back in the game now and we’re delighted because it was a very popular configuration, as you say, the Stellantis product, the Fiat, Peugeot, very popular. Ford very much filled the void for us in their absence. And they’ve done a fantastic job.
Matt Sims: Hence you launched the Endeavour range on the Ford, Adamo on the Ford. And you’re carrying on with that?
Simon Howard: Absolutely.
Matt Sims: And what’s the new product on?
Simon Howard: Ford.
Matt Sims: Oh, I’ve got something out of him! So it’s on a Ford Transit – two-wheel drive or four-wheel drive?
Simon Howard: No more! So we’ve got the Autograph, but we’ve got an exciting new campervan product which we took to northern Spain recently, the Rioja region. So I spent most of my time wine tasting. We went to a place called Bardenas Reales, which is a desert in northern Spain. It’s where they filmed some of the spaghetti Westerns. We gave it a thorough test. I mean, people think these trips we go on are a bit of a holiday, but we do test the vehicles we sell.
Matt Sims: And this is something I have always admired about you at Bailey – you do use the product yourselves, don’t you? And you do put them through their paces. I mean, you’ve been out in the Sahara Desert. You’ve been all over the world with your products.
Simon Howard: I’m very familiar with sand now. I’ve done three deserts. I’ve done one in Australia, one in the Sahara…
Matt Sims: A full set of buckets and spades.
Simon Howard: Yes. I’m very familiar now with brushing out sand.
Matt Sims: Now, whilst you are putting your product through its paces yourselves, product quality has always been a topic of discussion for consumers in the marketplace. And Bailey is no exception. Every manufacturer gets criticised for the end product and of course, long-term use of it is always going to shake down issues more so than you could ever kind of determine in a factory environment. And even on a trip to the Rioja region of Spain, you’re going to find issues whilst you do that kind of trip. But someone who’s owning it and maybe living in it or using it extensively is going to find bigger issues. And this does damage consumer confidence, without a doubt. What are you doing as a manufacturer to try and bring that confidence back and ensure that Bailey product is built to a better quality than your competitors, or maybe some experiences you’ve had in the past?
Simon Howard: It’s a very fair question. As you say, it’s probably the most common topic of conversation if you look on social media or on the forums. And I’d say from a manufacturing point of view, operationally, post-Covid, the first couple of years were challenging for us. We had a couple of issues. First of all, the supply chain was very fragile. So as a result, we couldn’t always get the components we wanted in the volume we wanted to manufacture the product. So it became a bit like the case of the old school dinners, where you have what you’re given, and that was it. And it may not have been ideal. But perhaps more significantly, post-Covid we had a large turnover in staff. People after the pandemic sort of re-evaluated their lives, their work-life balance, and perhaps decided they wanted to do something different. And we make a wide range of very complex products, and the skill and the experience of our staff is really important. And we lost some of that post-Covid. So as a result, we improved our remuneration package. We put better career paths for people on the operations team in place. So that meant we were able to recruit better and keep staff. So that’s improved. Certainly quality, one of the issues people were referring to, was sort of heritage from that. That was a challenging period for us. Butwe’ve brought that in line now. And in terms of quality, it is the main thrust. We’re very aware that people’s expectations have risen, and quite rightly so. As you mentioned, they’re spending a lot of money, a lot more money on this, and we’ve got to make sure we meet those expectations. So we’ve just got to get better. That’s the long and the short of it. I can make all the excuses. We just need to be better at what we’re doing. Perhaps I can give you one example of the sort of things we’re doing. We’ve introduced a product performance team over the past 12 months, a new team for us. And basically, their sole purpose is to monitor product performance in the field. And they do that by looking at our warranty data and through contact with our retailers, because that’s tangible for them, because the warranty data obviously tells us what we’re spending money.
Matt Sims: And what’s going wrong.
Simon Howard: What’s going wrong. So they do that. And then we have a dedicated team of engineers working in that department. Previously at Bailey, you had two types of engineer. One was part of the product development team. And their job was really to make the designs of the designers reality and also to make sure that we comply with all the necessary health and safety regulations, compliance. That’s a big part of their job these days. And then the second type of engineer was a production engineer. And fundamentally their job, they worked on the line. And if there was an issue making something, they’d look at ways of engineering out that problem. So we looked at manufacturing. That could be a process problem. It could be a design problem or it could be a component problem. It wasn’t arriving in the state we needed it to in order to assemble the vehicles. So you had two types. What we’ve got now is a bespoke set who purely focus on product performance in the field. So they’re looking at aftermarket performance. As you mentioned earlier, we test our products a lot. The development schedule now for products and all the testing can be anything up to 18 months. So while we’re talking a little about what we’re launching at the NEC in October, I’m already working as part of the team on what we’re making this time next year, which is also very exciting. We’re having to work a lot because we have to do a lot more testing. And that includes cold chamber testing. We do the real-life testing ourselves and a lot more in-house testing of the product. So we are working very hard to test it, but things are going to go wrong. And when people start using them over a long period of time, again, there are things perhaps that you haven’t picked up. And that’s why we have this aftermarket team of engineers. And their sole job is to go, “Right, we’ve got a problem with this component or how we’re fitting this component. It’s failing in the field. Let’s look at how we can improve that,” and then reintroducing that into production. So that’s a dedicated team.
Matt Sims: They make the change so you stop it happening again the following year.
Simon Howard: Exactly.
Matt Sims: Because I think a lot of manufacturers are not doing that. They just keep doing the same thing expecting a different result, which is the definition of insanity, I think, isn’t it?
Simon Howard: Well, it is! And that used to be part of someone else’s job. And that’s where it probably didn’t get the attention it deserved, whereas now it does. And the engineers we have are probably some of the most experienced we have in the business. They know the product inside out because they’re the fault finders. They’ll say there’s a problem here and they’ll work out why it’s not performing.
Matt Sims: So the good news is we can expect more innovation from Bailey in the short term and the medium term. So you’ve alluded to the fact there’s more new product coming in 2027.
Simon Howard: Yes.
Matt Sims: You’re giving absolutely nothing away! And I don’t blame you. So stay tuned to see what Bailey have in mind. I want to just wrap up Simon, because it’s been fascinating. But how are you attracting new talent to your business? Because you have invested a huge amount of time, effort and money into your team. And we’ve been very privileged here on the podcast to meet some of them. Particularly, I call out Chloe, who’s one of your designers, a chief designer.
Simon Howard: One of the rising stars.
Matt Sims: She is. And let’s face it, you and Nick are not getting any younger.
Simon Howard: It’s very sweet of you to say! You’re not wrong.
Matt Sims: Absolutely. None of us are. But you’re being quite innovative internally with attracting new staff. And there may be people listening who fancy working in the dark corner of Bedminster, where you’re based, where I grew up. But tell us a bit about the innovation you’re doing to attract and recruit.
Simon Howard: Yeah. I mean, it is a challenge. As you alluded to, Nick and I aren’t getting any younger.
Matt Sims: You’re still youngsters, really. There’s plenty of years left.
Simon Howard: Well, maybe. But it’s called succession planning. When you run a business, it’s one of the biggest challenges you face. I mean, obviously, you run the business to the best of your ability until you’re no longer capable of doing it. And then it’s finding people to take the company on. And we’ve been on that road now for about 4 or 5 years, and we’ve got a very bright young senior management team. But also, we’re looking to recruit younger people throughout the business to invigorate it and come up with fresh ideas. Just because we’ve done something the way we have done… I’ve been at Bailey for 27 years marketing, as you know.
Matt Sims: Well, I’ve always joked that Bailey Interiors used to be designed by Pauline and Accounts. You said, “Careful, that was my mum!”
Simon Howard: Yeah, exactly!
Matt Sims: With your peach and cream swirls.
Simon Howard: It was of its time.
Matt Sims: Of its time. Absolutely.
Simon Howard: But the marketing team we have now, I told them when I did my marketing qualifications, the internet didn’t exist. They can’t believe there was such a time. They thought cavemen had internet. I mean, it was dial up… basically my marketing skills are now out of date. So that’s an area we need to get younger people in who understand podcasts, they understand digital communication.
Matt Sims: You’re here on a podcast. You’re cutting edge, Simon. You’re with it. But what are you doing to attract that new talent?
Simon Howard: Surprisingly, it’s not actually that difficult, really. We work in an exciting industry. We sell happy memories. We sell great times. We give people the chance to go and see different parts of the world that they wouldn’t do otherwise and spend great times with family and friends. And I think the other thing that people really like is we’re making something tangible. We’re making a product, we’re not selling a service, and it’s something that they have ownership of and they can get excited by. So certainly finding young people is actually straightforward in many areas. But again, what we’re trying to do is create the right culture, the right environment to thrive. And again, not to be fearful of coming up with ideas, with suggestions on how to do things differently. And I think if Nick and I do have a strength, it’s that – we allow people to develop and there’s no such thing as a bad idea. I know it’s a cliche, but we’re looking for people to come in and bring change to invigorate the business to move it forward.
Matt Sims: Love that, love that. Well, if you’re listening or watching this and you’re interested in perhaps working for Bailey then you should get in touch! And you have a team that are open to conversation about recruitment. And of course, if you’re thinking of buying a Bailey product, you’re at the NEC show.
Simon Howard: We are at the NEC show once again. That’s the biggest showcase for our industry.
Matt Sims: Yours is the best lit stand at the show, without a doubt. It’s like walking into a disco. I love it.
Simon Howard: Yeah, the marketing team worked very hard on that.
Matt Sims: And you’re at the October and the February show.
Simon Howard: We do both. Yeah. So the October show with the next, and we’ll have the new caravans and the Autograph and the exciting new campervan product, which I haven’t told you very much about.
Matt Sims: So we now know it’s a Ford-based campervan, so we’ve got something out of you. You’ll have to go to the show to see it. Simon, thank you so much for coming in. It’s great to have you in our armoury of industry commentators. And I know this was a big, bold move, really, for you as a manufacturer to come and talk to me. So we do really appreciate hearing from you. And thank you very much for your insights.
Simon Howard: My pleasure. Delighted to be here back at Mendip Caravans.
Keith Gooden: That’s Simon Howard. He’s the marketing director at Bailey of Bristol. So, Matt, an honest review.
Matt Sims: I think so. Simon’s a great guy, totally authentic. A marketeer for sure. Very, very passionate about the product.
Keith Gooden: A great salesman as well.
Matt Sims: Yeah. He’s dead passionate about the Bailey brand. I think if you cut him in half it would say Bailey for sure. But I’m so grateful to him for coming in and sharing his insight because it was honest. There were some difficult questions in there, but he willingly came in to do it. So Simon, thank you for coming in. Really appreciate it. And I trust for you, the consumer – or maybe you’re a dealer listening to this – you had an insight from them too.
Keith Gooden: Matt, you mentioned that NordVPN has got more than just a VPN these days.
Matt Sims: Well, for starters, it can warn you if your email address pops up in a data leak. So you know to change your passwords before someone gets hold of it. It’s like having an early warning system for your personal info. It’s also got these extra privacy options where you can send your data through two different servers, making it even harder for anyone to track you. Clever. Most people won’t need it every day, but it’s there if you want that extra layer. And my favourite bit is threat protection. It blocks dodgy websites, annoying pop-ups and even scans downloads for malware. The best part? It works even when the VPN is not switched on.
Keith Gooden: So they’re covering all of your online travel needs?
Matt Sims: Exactly. Yeah. All those features backed by a top-rated service. Easy to set up and great speeds. Plus, we have a special deal for you. Click the link in the description to get the two-year plan with extra months free and a 30 day money back guarantee.
Keith Gooden: It’s the Motorhome Matt podcast with me, Keith Gooden.
Matt Sims: And me, Motorhome Matt.
Keith Gooden: It’s brought to you by www.thatleisureshop.com and sponsored by Ripe.
Matt Sims: Remember – get 15% off your insurance premium by using the code Motorhome Matt over the phone, or simply click the link in the description.
Keith Gooden: My favourite part of every podcast is the questions and answers, the Q&A, where you ask the questions and Motorhome Matt – for he is the expert – will answer them. And if he doesn’t know, he’ll use his investigative powers to find somebody who does. First of all, Rob Johnson got in touch.
Robert Johnson: Hi, Matt. Hi, Keith. You’re a good’un. We are ordering this week our very first campervan. It’s a Fiat Ducato and it’s a Benimar. We live in Spain, but we’ve got loads and loads of information from your podcast and YouTube channel and really appreciate that. Thanks very much. I have a question on trackers. We’ll definitely have a tracker fitted, but I’m concerned that if the van does get nicked and they do disconnect the battery, then the battery on the tracker will fail after a couple of days or something, and then they’ll be able to take it away. Is it doable, i wonder if you know this, to fit like a slave battery that isn’t connected to the 12-volt system in the van, but is recharged by the alternator? And therefore, if they did connect the van battery, they wouldn’t know that it would still be getting a supply. Is it practical? Is it doable? Is it worth doing? Again, thanks a lot. Really appreciate these podcasts and the YouTube channel – it’s been invaluable for us. Take care guys. Thanks a lot.
Keith Gooden: Thanks very much to Rob. By the way, when I was at school, primary school, my nickname was Beef Puddin’. Keith Gooden, Beef Puddin’.
Matt Sims: That’s a good’un.
Keith Gooden: And Rob’s got the sort of name, you know… you could have something rhyme with that. Not that I’m going to go on about that or anything like that. So can you put a separate circuit in for…
Matt Sims: It’s a really good question.
Keith Gooden: Recharging your tracker battery?
Matt Sims: I guess this is about keeping the tracker going when the starter battery has been disconnected. So the first thing to clarify is normally, a tracker is fitted to the starter battery, the engine battery. And that’s the one thieves will disconnect or even just park the van up and see if anyone comes to rescue it because it has a tracker. Now, if the battery is disconnected, I wouldn’t panic about this because immediately the tracker is going to send out an alert. The tracking company is going to know and they’re going to ring you straight away and say, “We’ve had a battery disconnect alert.” And you can then say, “Yeah, the van is not where it should be. So there is a problem.” So that’s the first thing. The battery in the tracker is going to last probably a week, maybe two. There’ll be some tracker companies that will claim even longer. So that gives a fair amount of time for the recovery service, the police or private investigator to get to the van. Remember, the tracker is still working even though the battery’s been disconnected. I would suggest rather than trying to rewire your 12-volt starter battery system, consider a second tracker. They’re not expensive. ScorpionTrack do one they’ve just launched, in fact. We’ve been promoting it and it’s Motorhome Matt approved. You could connect that to your leisure battery and hide it in the van. So you have your main one that’s on the starter battery. And you could have a second one on the leisure battery. So a completely isolated 12-volt feed. So if the battery in the tracker did go flat, you’ve still got a secondary tracker reporting in. That would be my belt and braces solution to your challenge. And a very good question too. Thanks, Rob.
Keith Gooden: Cheers, Rob. Much appreciated. Very cool. Just one word – jason.
Jason: Hi, guys. My question is regarding the lice25e. If you can drive up to a 4250kg on a B license, if the vehicle is an all electric, do you think the government will make it the same across the boar so you can drive up to 4250kg, whether it’s petrol, diesel or electric? Do you think that’s the way they’re going to go with it, or do you think they’re just for now going to leave it only electric? I find it a very confusing way to go about things where I can drive 4250kg all electric vehicle on my B licence, yet I can only drive 3500kg if it’s a petrol or diesel.
Keith Gooden: Cheers. Jason didn’t say where he was from. And please, when you do record something for us, do say where you’re from. It does help. But my guess from his accent is he’s across the water from us here in England. Before you answer the question though, Matt, probably a lot of people are sitting around confused about what the hell he is banging on about!
Matt Sims: So if you’re driving an all electric vehicle, it can be 4250kg and you can drive it on your normal licence, whereas normally your normal licence limits you to three and a half tonnes unless you passed your test before the 1st of January 1997, which you and I did, and we were given grandfather rights, which means we can drive up to seven and a half tonnes. So for the youngsters, let’s say it’s youngsters, or if you’re over 70, you might lose the entitlement to drive over three and a half tonnes – you can still drive 4250kg if it’s not an internal combustion engine, so it must be zero emissions. Let’s assume that means electric.
Keith Gooden: And we assume that the weight limit was raised because batteries weigh more.
Matt Sims: Batteries weigh more, so it gives vans the ability to be heavier and go further and be practical as an all electric solution. So that’s been derogated into law in the UK already. And then what’s happened is the European Parliament said, well, hang on a minute. As Jason suggests, if you can drive a 4250kg vehicle if it’s electric, why can’t you drive one that’s diesel? So they have passed what is now called the fourth European directive on the driving licence. We here exist under the third directive. The fourth directive is being passed through European Parliament at the moment and it’s been given the green light. It might take two years to go through. Historically, when we were in the EU, we would have been part of that change. We’re no longer in the EU so we can do our own thing. Hence our driving licences no longer have the EU flag on. But it’s likely, I predict, Jason, that yes, the UK government will adopt the change, not specifically driven by the fact that our B licences mean we can drive a heavier vehicle. It’s actually driven by all the safety rulings that have gone alongside this, which I won’t bore you with. You can actually go and discover the whole thing for yourself. There was an episode last year, October 24th – “Are driving licences changing?” And it was recorded live at the Warners Malvern show. So go and check that out – I unpack what the fourth directive is. And at that point we recorded it, it wasn’t being passed through Parliament in Europe. It is now. So yeah, I think we will adopt it – when, that’s the question! I don’t know. But certainly UK Parliament are considering it and I predict it will come into play, which is great news for us motorhomers. It means we can drive a vehicle at 4250kg without taking a test.
Keith Gooden: The fourth directive… The fifth element?
Matt Sims: We’re not there yet. Who knows what that will contain!
Keith Gooden: Great film. Bruce Willis and Milla Jovovich.
Matt Sims: It was a good film.
Keith Gooden: It was a brilliant film. Phil Davies is in Redruth. “Winter heating when not in use. Yes or no? Good or bad? I appreciate your view.” I presume he’s saying, should he heat up his motorhome when he’s not been going anywhere? Or should you just let it chill?
Matt Sims: Yeah, absolutely. Yes, a great idea. So the big thing about heating it up is you’re going to get all the air inside moving around. So you’re going to create convection. Heat the van up, open the roof lights, open the windows and get the air moving. I do this in the winter probably once a month. I just flick the heating on, leave it for an hour, go back, open the windows and let all the air move around. It stops the soft furnishings getting mouldy. Lift and air all the cushions and mattresses as well. The other thing it does is it keeps the boiler in tip-top condition, so it stops the bearings inside on the fan seizing up. So keep using it. So I would suggest if you can’t do it so there’s constantly heat in there, which quite uses quite a lot of electricity or gas, just go and do it regularly. The other tip is if you’re on hook-up, put a greenhouse heater in the van and keep the ambient temperature higher, and they use hardly any power and just keep the van from freezing. And it will help you protect your water system.
Keith Gooden: As well as your tomatoes.
Matt Sims: If you want to grow tomatoes in my van, you can move on.
Keith Gooden: Matt, if someone’s after a motorhome or just needs theirs looking after, where would you send them?
Matt Sims: Well, I’ve gone to RV Supercentre for years whenever I’ve needed Roller Team spare parts in particular, so I know firsthand how helpful they are. They’re not just about parts, though. They’re the UK’s one-stop shop for motorhomes whether you’re buying new or used, or even an ex-hire if you’re after great value.
Keith Gooden: And they do servicing as well, don’t they?
Matt Sims: Yep. Full service centres, parts, accessories, bodywork, repairs that are insurance approved – and they’re NCC accredited workshops. What I like is it’s a small and super friendly team, but with nationwide sites in Toddington, Edinburgh and Belfast. So they’ve got that local feel but with a huge reach.
Keith Gooden: Sounds like the full package.
Matt Sims: Exactly. You can find out more at www.rvsupercentre.co.uk, and we’ll stick the link in the episode description too.
Keith Gooden: How do people get in touch?
Matt Sims: We would love it if you did. If you have a question, please ask it! Head to mhmp.info/askmatt. Remember, tell us where in the country you are.
Keith Gooden: And if you’re looking for trusted brands and services, then make sure you visit the Motorhome Matt Approved directory. It’s at mhmp.info/approved.
Matt Sims: And if you’re listening, please follow on your favourite podcast app. And if you’re watching, click subscribe and the bell on YouTube!
Keith Gooden: Thanks for listening to the Motorhome Matt podcast. Remember to check back here for more episodes full of hints and tips and helpful advice. We’ll see you soon for another Motorhome Matt podcast brought to you with www.thatleisureshop.com.
