Is the motorhome industry in crisis?

Keith Gooden

In today’s episode of the Motorhome Matt podcast…

Matt Sims

We explore the recent motorhome dealer closures, the current state of the industry, and what the future may hold.

Keith Gooden

And we also answer your questions on driving in Europe without a C1, towing motorbikes, refillable gas points disappearing and using commercial tyres. Welcome to the Motorhome Matt Podcast. I’m Keith Gooden.

Matt Sims

And I’m Motorhome Matt.

Keith Gooden

Industry insights and expert advice for the world of motorhomes, caravans and campervans, brought to you by www.thatleisureshop.com.

Matt Sims

Now, please do remember to follow on your favorite podcast app, and please make sure you subscribe and hit the bell on YouTube – brought to you by www.arobasecreative.co.uk.

Motorhome dealers going into administration

Keith Gooden

Big news today, Matt. We’re talking about some companies going into administration. What do you know?

Matt Sims

Yeah, very sadly, Broad Lane Leisure, a household name, and Robinsons Caravans Group have both entered into administration. And we’re going to talk about this some more today.

Keith Gooden

Just for people who aren’t up on the business talk, administration – does that mean they’ve gone bankrupt?

Matt Sims

Not yet. No. It means that administrators have been brought in to manage the business, to try and either find a buyer, try and bring it back into a state where it can recover from its cash crisis, or will ultimately close it down.

Keith Gooden

And they’re trying to save jobs as well, and that’s the important thing too. And also consumers’ money. So let’s just unpack some of this shall we then, Matt? Why are dealerships closing? Is this just coincidence?

Why are motorhome dealerships closing?

Matt Sims

I’ve not spoken to the administrator of Broad Lane or Robinsons. I’ve not spoken to anyone at either business. But from what I can understand and from what I’m seeing across the industry, we have an issue of overstocking.

So basically, caravans particularly, but many motorhomes too are still on dealer forecourts for sale, mostly brand new from 2023 and many from 2024 and have not yet sold. And now what’s happening is we’ve got 2025 stock starting to appear from the manufacturers, who are putting pressure on the dealers to buy it and have in stock.

Keith Gooden

If I can just interject for a moment – I won’t make much of a mess. Don’t worry. Just a couple of years ago, we were talking about not having enough motorhomes. Now you’re saying there are too many.

Matt Sims

So the supply chain kind of fixed itself. So Stellantis Group started releasing lots of Fiat, Citroen and Peugeot chassis. And Ford stepped into the market, of course, and released lots of chassis. Plus we saw manufacturers getting creative using chassis like MAN, Mercedes, IVECO, so lots of new badges on the front radiators.

And suddenly all these vehicles have been built, and they are flooding the market. So suddenly there is a lot of choice about. And on top of that, we’re seeing lots of second hand motorhomes and caravans coming back into the dealers for sale, either part exchange or people looking to get out of the pastime.

Keith Gooden

I understand that, but isn’t this all good for the consumer?

Matt Sims

Yes, potentially, it could be That’s very true. And why? Because it means they’ve got lots of choice. And it does mean dealers are discounting. So the dealers are being driven to a point where they start putting discounts on new vehicles. Some of those discounts are being funded by the manufacturer. So Adria, for example, you said you saw one this morning in your Facebook feed.

Keith Gooden

Yes, there’s an advert. For the next couple of weeks, they’re offering extras or money off – one or the other. £5,000 worth.

Matt Sims

£5,000 worth of a pack on any brand new motorhome bought in the next few weeks’ time. So it’s a great chance to save some money. There’s the benefit for you, the consumer. The risk comes when the dealer starts stripping £5,000 or £7,000 off a screen price.

If you think that motorhome is £100,000 new, round numbers, they’re probably working on a 14% or 15% margin. So they’re giving away half their margin as a discount, and that is going to impact their bottom line, their profitability and their means of paying their staff and paying the electric bill.

Keith Gooden

Their costs don’t go down.

Matt Sims

The costs are going up. So rent’s going up, rates are going up, salaries are going up. As we know, utilities are rocketing up, so there’s increased costs in every corner, and their income is going down. Many are having no choice but to discount to try and sell in order to make space – physical, tarmac space and funding space – in order to buy the 2025 stock that is starting to come in as well.

Keith Gooden

I’m with you.

Is the motorhome industry in crisis worldwide?

Keith Gooden

Is this a worldwide problem or just a UK issue?

Matt Sims

I think it’s a Europe-wide problem, certainly, but it’s also interesting in the US. I was doing some digging into what’s happening in the USA, because we’re typically a few years behind. What’s happening in America comes here, and it’s even worse in the States.

So just a few summary stats. New motorhome production year on year is down 31% from May this year back to May last year, so down nearly a third. And used units for sale are up year on year to 65,000 in June this year. Up 22.6%. In June ’21 it was 35,000 – almost half. So there are more than double second hand motorhomes for sale in the US at the moment.

Keith Gooden

And like I said, if we even just go back a few years when you couldn’t buy a new motorhome for love nor money and secondhand prices started to rise – has this got anything to do with the pandemic/Ukraine war issue that was affecting the market? Or is this entirely different?

Matt Sims

I think there’s a bit of a perfect storm going on. So we’re on a journey, aren’t we, and these things are cyclical. It wasn’t that many years ago that sales were being suppressed because of Brexit and the uncertainty of tariffs.

I remember walking around the October motorhome show at the NEC and people were really, really nervous about buying a motorhome then, because there was a chance of a 10% tariff being added to it.

Keith Gooden

And if you’re spending £70,000, then 10% is £7,000.

Matt Sims

You’ve got to dig deep for £7,000 more. And some manufacturers were saying, “We’ll underwrite the tariff if it happens.” And there was all this uncertainty, and it killed new sales. And as dealers, we were kind of thinking, “Well, you know, we’re not going to make any sales this week at the show,” and that really hampered performance.

And then, of course, there were no tariffs. And so off we went. And then we went into the pandemic and supply chain crisis, and everyone decided, you know, we want a motorhome, and we ran out of stock, and so demand went up, so thus the price went up. And I saw left, right and center dealers being thrown under the bus here. “It’s their fault and they deserve all they get. They were so greedy during the pandemic.”

Keith Gooden

This is what’s been said on social media.

Matt Sims

Yeah, comments on YouTube videos. There’s loads of them, and I’ve been watching quite a lot of them recently. And yes, it’s true. As a trade, we did maximize the opportunity. We’d been through the mill with Brexit. The pandemic came, we all closed up and went home, and none of us knew what was going to happen.

And for months we were stopped from trading. And then suddenly this boom came, and we could sell all our stock. And dealerships that would normally have 150 motorhomes on the forecourt suddenly had six, and it was just tarmac. There was nothing to sell. Now, that’s great, you might think. If you’ve got nothing to sell, you’ve got nothing to make money on to pay the bills.

We made a huge amount of money as an industry very, very quickly. That money’s often disappeared and paid off mortgages and paid off debt – no doubt paid off some senior employees to retire. And, you know, people went and bought a new car or new house or whatever. But the point is, the money disappeared.

And, you know, the free world we’re in on this part of the planet, in terms of the the ability to make money and take it out of a business – then you’ve got nothing to sell, and that then causes a knock-on effect. Now we’ve got too much to sell, and the demand has dropped.

So the consumers are struggling to buy it, because frankly, things are just too expensive, and people haven’t got the funds. So we’ve got a new problem, and it’s like a sine wave effect. We will look back on this in five or 10 years’ time and see there was an even keel through all of it. But we have to ride the wave.

Keith Gooden

There’s a median level always through, as you say, that sort of sine wave shape, isn’t there? But if I can play consumers’ advocate, devil’s advocate, shouldn’t the dealers be running their businesses a little bit more responsibly? Couldn’t they foresee this happening?

Matt Sims

That’s a valid point. Yes. How do we foresee any of this happening? I mean, keeping cash in a business – cash is king, because cash flow is the challenge at the moment for many businesses.

Keith Gooden

Paying the bills.

Matt Sims

And it’s not just this industry. It’s across all industries in the UK. I’m sure there are some exceptions. But cash is king in any business, and when you run out of cash, you run out of the ability to make informed decisions, and you just go into survival mode. Unfortunately, many businesses are going into robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Cash flow becomes micromanaged every day. It’s been a journey for us here within our businesses. Our storage business is flying and doing exceptionally well because there’s a demand for storage of a motorhome or caravan.

The hire business this year is also doing really, really well, much better, actually, than it’s done in the last two years. So we’re seeing a demand there, but sales for us, we’re seeing a drop in sales. It’s become harder to get good stock.

Keith Gooden

And these sales – are these for new motorhomes or for used ones?

Matt Sims

Used. So for us, getting used has been a challenge, and sales of them have slowed right down. You know, for us here, our own dynamic is shifting, and it’s been a bit of a roller coaster. But if you imagine you’re stocking 200 motorhomes or 200 caravans, that’s a lot of money. And when you hit that wall – having been a dealer myself – when you hit that wall and that bill comes in to pay for those motorhomes, it’s a big wall to get over.

And the way this works is the stock arrives from the manufacturer and it’s put on a credit line. So the dealer doesn’t own that new stock. It’s a finance company, a finance house, that owns it. Typically Black Horse or a company called DF Capital. They are the people that own the stock, and you get the stock for free for 365 days.

So it’s yours for a year to try and sell. Those 365 days are running out. So many dealers are now full of stock that is coming up to the end of that free credit line, and they have to start paying interest and capital. Now, if that motorhome cost £80,000, they’re going to start seeing bills of £10,000 every month to pay that vehicle off. And if you’ve got 100 of them, that’s a tonne of money.

What impact does a motorhome dealership closure have on motorhome manufacturers?

Keith Gooden

I was playing devil’s advocate there for the consumer and the dealers. But let’s talk about the manufacturers. How come it’s not sale or return?

Matt Sims

The manufacturer sells them to the finance house, and there is an agreement between the manufacturer and the dealer that a manufacturer would buy them back at cost if the dealer goes into administration or bust. So then the knock-on effect for the manufacturers is they end up having last year’s product back.

Well, they’re not interested. They don’t want last year’s product back. They’re trying to get rid of next year’s product, which they’ve already built. And they’re already starting to build 2026 models now, and they’re already researching and planning 2027 and 2028 models. So to suddenly have a load of ’23 and ’24 models back into their stock, that’s a nightmare. That is going backwards.

And the big issue with caravans especially, it’s not like a car. It could sit in Portbury dock near us here. They can sit there for three years and still be sold as a new car. A caravan is year model specific, and so it gets stamped with the model year. This is something which I think needs reviewing in our industry, because that model year ages the caravan immediately, and next year it’s devalued because, oh, it’s last year’s model.

Where, you know, a BMW three series, unless there’s a facelift or some significant engine change, it’s a BMW three series, isn’t it? It’s very different to caravans. And motorhomes are slightly different, but typically, there is a year model, and that is a nightmare for our industry. If it doesn’t sell, it’s a year old a year later.

Keith Gooden

As we record this in our studio near Weston-super-Mare – I was traveling down here, Matt, and it’s the beginning of the summer holidays. Schools are breaking up. And I was playing a little bit of caravan and campervan snooker on the way down. They’re all white. There are no red ones.

But anyway, 10 years ago, caravans were overtaking caravans, overtaking caravans, and yeah, you’d have some motorhomes and you’d have some campervans. But now on the journey down, I’ve come down from near Bath to here, so 40 miles – it’s all campervans. A couple of caravans, but you see a lot fewer. Now, it’s a non-scientific survey of me just driving down here this morning, but you are seeing fewer caravans.

Matt Sims

That’s very true. And here we are right at the beginning of the school summer holidays, recording this today. And that is an industry trend. Caravan sales are absolutely in decline, which is remarkable given that the DVLA changed the licence laws, meaning towing a caravan is far more accessible. But caravans are becoming very expensive.

They’re becoming very, very well equipped, which is pushing up retail prices. And they’re pushing them to a point where someone who would traditionally choose to buy a caravan as an affordable holiday product… they’re just too much money. People have got too much month at the end of the money. You know, it’s a silly statement, but it’s true.

And they haven’t got the £25,000 or £30,000 for a caravan. They’re normally used to spending £15,000 or £20,000 for a new caravan. But you know what’s interesting, people are saying, “Oh, they’ve become all too expensive. It’s ridiculous. They’ve gone up too much, too quick.” You know what? They haven’t. If 10 years ago… I was looking at retail prices of caravans and motorhomes and compared them to 10 years before that, and the increase was fairly diagonal, a fairly straight line.

That line has continued. It hasn’t shot up vertically. Yes, there was a peak during COVID where there was a temporary uplift in retail prices. They’ve come back down again. And where we are now is actually fairly uniform as a price increase trajectory to 10 years ago. And I think the issue is the cost of living crisis, as we call it. People’s monthly overhead is too high.

Keith Gooden

There are a lot more demands, aren’t there, on people’s money? And the campervan and the caravan comes a little bit further down than the mortgage and the shopping, doesn’t it?

Matt Sims

It does. Yeah, of course. House prices have gone up astronomically, and people are able to borrow to buy that property, which means they’re over leveraged. I mean, if you think when you bought your first house…

Keith Gooden

£75,000.

Matt Sims

There we are. And what were you earning when you bought that?

Keith Gooden

It was two and a half times your monthly salary, plus, if you’re married or living with somebody, at their salary times one. But these days, you know, that same house that I bought for £75,000 costs £275,000 pounds more, and salaries haven’t gone up by the same amount.

Matt Sims

Exactly. So I don’t know what an average household salary is these days, but it’s probably less than £30,000.

Keith Gooden

Yeah, I think it’s just about tipping £30,000.

Matt Sims

It’s 10x, isn’t it?

Keith Gooden

Two and a half times that doesn’t add up to £275,000.

Matt Sims

Exactly. So now, in order to buy that house, it’s 10x your salary. So we’re over leveraged on borrowing, otherwise you can’t buy a house, and that affects your monthly income, doesn’t it?

Keith Gooden

So you’re paying more out for your mortgage.

Matt Sims

And then, of course, interest rates go up, and mortgage payments go from £1,000 a month to suddenly £1,500 a month or more. And I’ve heard all sorts of stories of people’s mortgage payments doubling. That has a massive knock-on effect on the affordability of a motorhome or caravan.

And the other really sad thing that is impacting all of this, I see the feedback in the comments, is the way people are chastising… the consumers are heavily criticising the quality of the product. And in the US, there’s lots of feedback – consumers are saying, “I don’t want to buy a new one. I can’t be doing with the hassle and the aggravation of a new one.

I’ve just rattled through all my issues under warranty with my current one. If I buy a new one, I’ll be back to the dealer 20 times having it all fixed.” What is going on with the quality of the product? The price is now at a point where it’s comparable to an executive German car, where there’s a high expectation of reliability.

It’s not really happening with many motorhomes and caravans. The build quality is getting worse. And the other issue that I’m seeing people complaining about is the cost of campsites, and that’s putting people off. And people are saying, “I’m done with motorhoming. I can’t be doing with it. You can’t park wherever you want, and campsites are too expensive. They’re ripping us off, and it’s putting me off. I’m out.”

Keith Gooden

We must say, we’ve discussed this in the past. The reason that campsites generally are going up in price is because of electricity prices, isn’t it? I mean, they shot up two and a half or three years ago, and we’ve talked about them charging differently for electricity as time has gone on, but the costs for campsites have increased as well.

It’s not as though the campsite owners are sitting there rubbing their hands thinking, “I’m going to charge double for that pitch this year, because I can,” because clearly what you’re saying is they can’t.

Matt Sims

No, of course, they can’t. And I predicted at the beginning of this year that we’d see a trend of people wanting to not stay on a campsite, but go and stay in other places. And we’re seeing, you know, brands like Brit Stops and Search For Sites, these websites, becoming more and more popular as more and more people use them to find somewhere to stop over.

I’m guilty of this too. We do it all the time rather than choose to stay on a campsite. And campsites, many of them are complaining that they’re empty. Now, the weather’s been a big factor.

Why is the motorhome industry struggling?

Keith Gooden

It’s been bad in 2024, hasn’t it?

Matt Sims

Awful. I mean, I think I saw some stat the other day that we’ve had the lowest number of dry days in a run for years. But basically, it’s been raining a lot. And lots of grass pitches are flooded and are unusable, which means a campsite can’t fully book itself.

Keith Gooden

So there are fewer campsites, so the prices for the ones that can take bookings go up.

Matt Sims

Yeah, that’s right. Of course they do, because of their overheads.

Keith Gooden

There’s more demand.

Matt Sims

There’s an interesting trend going on there. But what I find sad is that people are using the cost of a campsite per night as a reason not to buy a motorhome or caravan.

Keith Gooden

So what does it cost per night?

Matt Sims

Well, it depends where you stay, but it used to be from £5 or £6 a night, I remember. Certainly £10 or £15. It’s now £25 up to over £100 a night.

Keith Gooden

£100 a night?!

Matt Sims

If you’ve got a swimming pool and facilities, yeah, of course. Some campsites are charging per person. Then they want to charge you for your awning, you know, and if you’ve got an extra axle on your motorhome… yeah, just some things they’re charging for I think are silly.

Keith Gooden

It’s the culture, isn’t it, of charging for things which never used to be charged for.

Matt Sims

That’s right. Are you that person that wears three coats and two jumpers on an airplane?

Keith Gooden

10 pairs of socks at once. And the gloves as well.

Matt Sims

Saves packing your bag!

Keith Gooden

It shouldn’t be that way. It’s because they’re trying to winkle out a little bit of extra money from you and pretend it’s for something which is important and necessary, whereas they used to just include it in the ticket prices. Isn’t that happening on some of the campsites, like you say, about extracts?

Matt Sims

I think it is. Yeah, I think it is. And charging, as I say, per person, for an awning and so on. And where I think businesses can react to this is they have to innovate. If they don’t, they will evaporate.

Campsites, dealerships – different price points in the way we spend as consumers. But we need innovation that adds value to the consumer experience, and whether that be helping organise a hire car for when you’re here in your motorhome, and you can book it through us or whatever it is, businesses need to be far more creative, I think, to survive this.

Keith Gooden

Isn’t it about service as well? Because if you buy a motorhome in Perth and you live in Cornwall, then if something goes wrong with the motorhome, you have to take it back to Perth. Why aren’t dealers more integrated? Why aren’t there more deals within dealers so that the consumer gets a better service?

Matt Sims

That scenario you name there – we were laughing about this earlier, weren’t we? A £7,000 discount in Perth could mean that you’re tempted from Cornwall to buy it. If something goes wrong, you’ll be going back to Perth, and you will regret buying it there, probably because of the hassle of taking it back.

And why won’t a dealer service it, your local dealer? Often because you didn’t support them. They don’t have to. And frankly, the dealer would say, “Why should I? You know, I offered you a £2,000 discount. It wasn’t enough. I didn’t want to forego all my margin just to get your business and then have to deal with you after the sale,” because often a dealer is fixing and rectifying problems that the manufacturer doesn’t pay for. They have to pay for it.

This is why they need a profit. And if you’re going to forego all that profit just to get the sale, you could just be buying a load of problems down the line. So running a good business that offers great customer service costs money, and as consumers, we have to pay for that.

Keith Gooden

But the dealer should be doing the deal, ringing the Perth dealership that the person in Cornwall bought it from and saying, “We’ve got a problem here. They brought it into us,” and they have a negotiation, and they come to a price which they’re both happy with.

And ultimately, the consumer then makes a good report. We’re talking about people on social media. It’s very easy to give reviews now for things, and it’s very easy to give bad reviews, but people love to give good reviews.

And if they could do that, they could sit there as a keyboard warrior and say, “I did buy my motorhome or campervan in Perth, and I live in Cornwall. But when something went wrong, because they were the same sort of dealer, they saw me right.

I can’t express how good the customer service was.” And what you said in your last answer was, the dealer said, “Well, why should I?” Well, for me, an outsider to this industry, I would say, why should you? Because you’ll keep your customers.

Matt Sims

You’d think it’d be that simple, wouldn’t you? You really would. I mean, the reality is that dealer is probably busy with their existing customers and wants to offer them the best service they possibly can.

And so essentially, buying in customers is not always on every dealer’s agenda. When I owned a dealership, we took great pride in welcoming a customer from any dealership, and we saw that we were winning a new customer and potentially a new sale when they came to replace their existing motorhome. So we took a big picture view.

But it’s something that really annoys me about our industry. And it frustrates the hell out of me that there isn’t this joined up approach as you describe, where dealers are liaising with each other. Some do, absolutely. There are some absolute saints out there who will be the first to pick up the phone.

Keith Gooden

And the first to get the repeat business as well.

Matt Sims

Probably. And they are doing very, very well. It’s a massive topic in our industry, and it is a big, big issue. I don’t know how we address it.

Keith Gooden

We’ve talked about consumers and deals, deals, deals, but, you know, for the dealers and the supply chain… we’ve talked about the dealers briefly and at length a little while ago. Let’s go back up the supply chain, then, to the manufacturers, the people who are making the new stock.

What does all this mean for them? You did mention that they’re trying to get the new stock onto the tarmac, but it does seem that the pyramid of manufacturers, dealers and consumers does seem to be not working as it should at the moment.

Matt Sims

Yeah, that’s right, simply because not everyone’s playing their part. Consumers need to play their part, which fundamentally is to go and buy a caravan. Go and buy a motorhome. If we do that, we help fix the problem. That is part of the problem, the fact that we’re not doing that for whatever reason we’re not doing it.

Keith Gooden

You spoke to Simon Howard, didn’t you, marketing director at Bailey of Bristol?

Matt Sims

Yes, we did. And I asked Simon, how does it affect your operations when one of your dealers goes into administration?

Motorhome dealership closure impact for Bailey of Bristol

Simon Howard

So the first things we normally do when we hear of a retailer going into administration is we’ll contact their customers and obviously advise them of their new warranty and servicing arrangements to ensure they can sort of maintain the upkeep on their vehicle. And then we’ll look to see if there are any unfulfilled retail orders via that outlet.

Maybe it will be a vehicle that they’ve got on site and they haven’t handed over yet. Or it can be sometimes one that we just haven’t built yet. And what we’ll try to do is get one of the other local retailers to adopt that sale, so the customer will still get their vehicle through a different outlet.

And then strategically, longer term, we sort of look at the shortfall in terms of sales volumes and look to see whether the surrounding retailers can pick that up, or whether we need to appoint a new outlet.

Matt Sims

So does that create an opportunity, then, for a new dealer to step into the family of Bailey?

Simon Howard

Potentially. Yes, it’s always an option. I mean, initially we try to give the local retailers the opportunity and say we’ve lost a certain amount of sales volume through this outlet. Do you want to increase your Bailey intake?

And if they say yes, great. If they say no, then we will look at other options, because obviously you want some geographical coverage, not only to maintain the sales volumes, but also to give the customers the servicing and warranty option as well.

Matt Sims

What happens to the stock, then, that isn’t allocated to a customer that’s left in that dealership in administration?

Simon Howard

Whenever we sell stock, we sell it on a stocking plan via the retailer’s preferred finance house. There are about four or five that operate in our industry. So technically, the vehicles belong to the finance house until the retailers pay them off.

But what we normally have in place with the finance houses is a returns agreement whereby we buy back any unsold stock from a retailer that’s gone into administration at the original invoice price, minus part payments that the dealer may have paid on it.

Once we get them back, we check all the stock, we make sure it’s up to merchandisable standard, and then we’ll look to sell it through our existing retailer network to other retailers. We will have to do that at discount.

Obviously a lot of it will be like display model stock, so it may have been around for a few months, so it’s not necessarily factory fresh. And also, you’re asking retailers to take additional products. They will need to be incentivised to do it. So it does mean that we take a bit of a hit sometimes, sometimes a loss, if the market’s tough, but we just need to reallocate it and get it sold through as quickly as we can.

Matt Sims

But what does that mean for the consumer, then, if you’re liquidating stock at a lower price? Does that mean there are deals to be had in the months ahead, after… well, unfortunately, again, we’re going to see some more administrations, I’m sure. Is that ripple going to go through the consumer market?

Simon Howard

It does mean there will be additional discounting, because obviously some retailers are going to have units available at a preferential price compared to other outlets. So it does mean a bit bit of instability from our point of view, but you’ve got to flush those units through. They’ve been built, so you just have to accept a bit of short term pain to get them through, so you get back to more stable market conditions.

Matt Sims

So short term pain for you, but potentially a win for the consumer?

Simon Howard

Potentially they could pick up a deal. I mean, we obviously try and spread the stock around the retailers, because you find if you give it all to one outlet, what it can mean is that then they’re stuck with that stock and they’ve got to sell that before they can take anything else.

So effectively, you’re taking them out of the game in terms of ordering anything more from you. So we try and spread them around, but potentially from the customers, if they look hard, there could be a good deal to be had.

Matt Sims

And what about for you then, Simon, as we approach 2025? It feels like a changing landscape, a slightly changing market. How are you adapting as a business to that changing market?

Simon Howard

You’re right. It is very, very fluid. I mean, we’ve come out of COVID, and then we became a very buoyant market post-COVID. But now the markets are hardening. So from a manufacturer’s point of view, we need first to be as flexible as possible.

We need to make sure that we’re harmonising supply with demand, and we’re helped out a little bit now, because we’re a three product company. We make the caravans, the motorhomes and the campervans. So if one market is performing better than the other, we can invest more resources in that area and reduce our commitment in others.

But what we can’t do is have a plan that sets in stone how many we’re going to make of each and every one each year, because you will end up with stock that’s perhaps not wanted at the end of the year. So we try and make what people want, and that’s monitoring the retail. So that’s really important.

And the second thing we have to do is we’ve got to be innovative. We’ve got to bring out new products, because we’ve got to give people a reason to look to buy, either for the first time, or to upgrade the vehicle they’ve got. So we’ve got to be innovative.

And we’ve got a lot going on in 2025. We’re upgrading three of our core ranges, two caravans and one motorhome, and also we’re expanding our campervan portfolio. So we’ve got a lot of new product coming to the market, and hopefully that will just incentivise them to stick their hand stick their hands in their pockets and invest in a new Bailey vehicle.

Matt Sims

Will caravans remain a big part of Bailey into 2025?

Simon Howard

Oh, absolutely. I mean, it’s still by far our biggest vehicle in terms of production. We’re probably about three to one, caravans to motorhomes. Bearing in mind, we have been making caravans since 1948. We’re relative newbies to motorhomes, and campervans was last year, so caravans are still a big part of our business going forward.

At the moment, certainly the motorised sectors are growing faster, and we’ve got to increase our offering in that area. So campervans are the latest addition, but we’ve got to make sure that we have a good selection of coach builts and campervans for people to buy, because that’s certainly the growth area for the business going forward.

Matt Sims

Well, the new Adamo – the layout is amazing. It’s very nice. The campervan range is very impressive. And I’d say it’s a very exciting time for Bailey as you step into next year, and I think you’re in a very strong position, can I just say?

Simon Howard

Thanks very much. That’s very kind of you to say. Hopefully the customers will feel the same when they look at the product!

Matt Sims

New and existing. I mean, this is as much about getting existing people to spend money as it is about attracting newbies to the pastime, isn’t it?

Simon Howard

Absolutely right. I mean, your core customers – that’s the simplest new sale, giving them a reason to change. But with prices going up, you’ve got to offer them a genuine reason to change, rather than perhaps just changing the upholstery of the graphics on the side. You’ve got to come up with some genuine improvements so they can look at that and say, “Yeah, that’s a step up from what I’ve got. Where do I sign?”

Keith Gooden

Thanks Simon at Bailey for that. Now, Matt, that’s great for a big manufacturer such as Bailey, but what about the smaller manufacturers and the independent ones?

Matt Sims

Yeah, that’s right. Well, you imagine, if you’re only producing 10 vehicles a year, you’re reliant on that margin per vehicle times 10. If that margin is vastly reduced, your profit is vastly reduced, too. On a much smaller scale, it can have a much bigger impact.

With a manufacturer like Bailey, they’re dealing with big, big numbers and huge overheads too, of course. So the impact for them is massive. But a small, independent manufacturer may only have one or three outlets for their product, so their options for where they can place that product are far more limited. So often this results in manufacturers becoming the retailer themselves in order just to try and claw back the profit by gaining a retail margin. All of this has a ripple effect.

What will happen with motorhome finance providers?

Keith Gooden

I want to ask you about that. Another link in this chain we have mentioned is the impact on the finance providers, the people who stump up the big lumps of money and who actually own the motorhome. What happens with them?

Matt Sims

Well, they want to claw back their costs as well, and they kind of hold all the cards, in a way, because they own the vehicles. And there’s no emotion in any of that. It’s well funded big business.

They’re global products, often global businesses, and they will look to dispose of the stock to the most cost effective buyer that they can find. And the knock-on from there is if they choose to distress sell it at a knock down price back to a manufacturer or straight into the market via another reseller, that product is in the market at a lower price. That has an impact on everything around it. That can impact used prices. Because why would you buy a used one when you can buy a brand new one that’s perhaps a year old?

Keith Gooden

For a couple of thousand pounds more.

Matt Sims

Or even a couple of thousand pounds less! So they hold the cards here, and actually, to us, the consumer, they’re invisible to us. We never have any exposure to these people. They’re always at the NEC show and some of the outdoor shows, and I know most of them are saying hi to them. No one has a clue who they are, yet they hold such power in our industry and our market. So yeah, they are the people actually in control.

Keith Gooden

They’re in the business of making money from money, and they’ve got to make more money from buying and selling motorhomes and caravans, haven’t they, than putting it in the building society and getting interest on it. That’s the bottom line for them, quite literally.

Matt Sims

And if they’re losing money, their criteria to lend will go up.

Keith Gooden

Yes, and they might just withdraw from the market.

Matt Sims

They could withdraw from the market.

Keith Gooden

Because they’re trying to make money from money.

Matt Sims

That’s right. And they may go into another market. They may look at boating or some other marketplace, you know, dustbin lorries, I don’t know. They do fund dustbin lorries and tractors and all sorts. These are massive businesses, and the risk is they will not fund a new dealership. I remember when we started our dealership, it was several years before we could even get £120,000 credit line. That is not many motorhomes.

Even back then when we started out in 2008, a new motorhome was probably £35,000, retailing at £45,000 or something like that. You know, that’s only three or four motorhomes, just. That’s not many motorhomes to fund, and that’s all we could borrow on a credit line.

We had to fund them ourselves or work with a manufacturer to fund them. So yeah, the risk is their criteria to lend go up, so we see fewer dealerships able to get the stocking line, or their interest rates go up, meaning the vehicle costs go up again.

Keith Gooden

And their vast ocean of money has a knock-on, doesn’t it? How would it affect manufacturers getting parts in the chassis, for instance?

Matt Sims

Absolutely. I mean, that’s been a nightmare for years, hasn’t it? And it just means that if the margin isn’t in the vehicle when it’s sold, it has to go into the parts and the aftercare and the supply of parts afterwards. And I do think we are seeing part prices really going up as manufacturers try and claw back some of their margin that they lost on selling the unit.

Keith Gooden

What we’re talking about here ultimately is a contraction of the market, isn’t it? And if we’re not buying in quantity, that will mean one of two things, won’t it? The price will just keep rising because there are fewer being made, and therefore the unit cost goes up.

And if the finance as we’ve discussed has got pressure on it as well, the cost of borrowing money is going to go up. So the market contracts generally, and this is why people are going out of business, isn’t it?

Matt Sims

That’s right, yeah, and we become a self fulfilling prophecy as an industry. We bring it on ourselves. And the answer is, we need to keep the wheels moving. We need to keep commerce moving. We need to be supporting each other as parties in this supply chain, from the manufacturer to the lender to the dealer and to you, the consumer.

Everybody has a part to play. As I said earlier, the way you can help this is to go and buy that used or new motorhome or campervan. If you’re thinking of doing it, go and get the deal you want. Consider where it is. Consider that Cornwall/Perth example that we had.

Keith Gooden

Have a conversation with the dealer and say, “Well, if something goes wrong, what are you going to do for me?”

Matt Sims

As we’ve said before, money talks, doesn’t it, if there’s a warranty claim. But play your part. And we need to keep these wheels rotating.

Keith Gooden

Yeah, we do. But one thing we have to keep in mind, Matt, is – and you very eloquently said how it affects their different businesses down the chain – as a consumer, I want more power for my pound, don’t I? I want maximum. I’m not a charity, you know? I’m not going to fund a dealership just because they should be there. The deal is, the manufacturers have got to give me value for money.

Matt Sims

They absolutely have, and we all need to take responsibility for that, and manufacturers do too in the quality of the product they’re providing and the support they offer the dealer and thus the consumer after the sale.

You want power for your pound, you need to think about the whole lifetime ownership of that vehicle and the power you want for that pound during your ownership. Yes, you can save a few quid when you buy it, but if that’s going to mean a load of hassle for you while you own it trying to get it fixed and traveling to Perth from Cornwall, then that’s going to be a real hassle for you, and you’re going to fall out of love with that vehicle very quickly.

If you could do a deal with your local dealership and say, “Look, I’ve been offered this. It’s much sharper than your deal. What can you do?” Have a conversation with them and talk about that lifetime ownership, and talk about how you would use them for your servicing and commit to it. If there’s a service plan on offer, do a deal that includes that.

The dealer knows they’re going to keep you as a customer. You’re going to keep coming back, and yes, they are going to take you out of the market, but they’re going to keep you as a customer for the next however long you own that vehicle.

Audience Q&A

Keith Gooden

It’s the Motorhome Matt podcast. I’m Keith Gooden.

Matt Sims

I’m Motorhome Matt.

Keith Gooden

It’s brought to you with www.thatleisureshop.com. It’s our Q&A, our questions and answers. And first of all, we’re hearing from Eddie Watkins.

Eddie Watkins

I haven’t got a C1 license, but my wife has. So she can drive our 3,700 kilo van in the UK, which she does. You did an audio video thing on the EU upgrading the the weight limit to 4,250 which is pretty much going to be ratified, isn’t it, in the next few weeks?

I know the UK may do that, which would sort me out, but that would be months after, wouldn’t it? Yeah, we don’t know. But assuming the EU did but the UK didn’t, would that mean that my wife could drive the 3,700 kilo motorhome to say, Plymouth, right? And then once we got to France, I could then drive it in France, because Europe has got a 4,250 limit?

Keith Gooden

There you go, Matt. So the question is, can you box clever when you’re driving and your weight limits across the UK, GB in Northern Ireland and mainland Europe?

Matt Sims

The answer is no, simply because your licence is issued in the UK. Therefore you’re driving under the terms of that license. Doesn’t matter where. You could be in the USA, you could be in France, you could be in Italy.

You’ve got an English or UK driving licence, therefore the restrictions imposed on you come from the country of origin. So even if the EU do change the licensing laws – let’s hope they do – and raise the limit to 4,250, unless the UK government adopt that same ruling, you cannot adopt the European one unless you were to apply for European driving licence, of course.

Keith Gooden

Thanks very much, Eddie.

Keith Gooden

Vince Knight is from Worthing. He’s written to us, Matt. “I’m playing catch-up on all your amazingly informative YouTube podcasts. But I jumped forward the one about A-frame trailers, as I’ve seen so many bloggers talking about this issue.” So have we.

“My question is, does all that was said regarding cars apply to motorbikes as well? We intend to buy a motorhome very soon when we retire and live in it full-time and want to use a motorbike for getting around all over the EU and UK. Hope to hear back from you soon. Keep up the brilliant podcast.”

Matt Sims

Thank you, Vince. That’s great. I’m intrigued, though, how you would tow a motorbike on an a frame. So a motorbike is going to fall over, isn’t it? I mean, the A frame will help hold it up. There are ways of putting a motorbike behind a motorhome, which makes them exempt from the towing rule using an A frame, because the wheels aren’t on the floor.

You either put the motorbike on a trailer, or you can put it on a bike lift across the back of the motorhome, provided the bike’s not too long. You don’t want it sticking out either side. So there are lots of bike lifts or shelves you can put it on.

They mount on a tow bar or onto the rear chassis. The big consideration here is your payload and what that rear axle can take in terms of weight, because particularly if you’re putting it up off the ground, all the weight is on the back axle of the motorhome.

This is why people put motorbikes on a trailer, a motorcycle trailer, and then the standard trailer, all supplied with number plates and lights and so on, that matches the motorhome. But actually towing it on the ground, I’ve never seen anybody doing that, so I’m not sure it would even work. So I think a trailer is probably the easiest answer.

Keith Gooden

And a good point there, because if you buy a motorhome with a garage in the back, as soon as you put the motorbike in the back, it affects the weight, doesn’t it?

Matt Sims

In exactly the same way. Yes. And of course, that’s the other option – you put it inside, in the back of the motorhome somewhere. The big issue with that is weight, and the other is the smell of petrol, because it’ll absolutely stink your motorhome out.

I see people doing it all the time in a living area. So in, like, a van, they open the back doors and put it right in under the bed, and they’re sleeping above it. And I think, “What are you doing about the smell?” Rubber is bad enough, but a tank of petrol, I couldn’t go to sleep with that smell.

Keith Gooden

It makes you dizzy, doesn’t it?

Matt Sims

I’d be sick.

Keith Gooden

Does it make you dizzy? Whenever I get petrol fumes, I sort of go, “Oh!” A bit like that.

Keith Gooden

Nicholas Woodage is in Petersfield. He says, “How can we convince the fuel companies to continue selling Auto Gas or LPG at garages for people with their own bottles and tanks? And can I refit my motorhome with commercial tyres as opposed to camper tyres if I use the vehicle on a regular basis?” Two questions in one.

Matt Sims

Well done, Nicholas. So how do we convince the gas company? I don’t think we can. It’s all about commerciality.

Keith Gooden

It’s all about money.

Matt Sims

It’s all about the dough. There are not enough people buying gas, Auto Gas at a pump, for them to warrant this, and they know the future is going to be electric recharging of cars and vans and lorries. And they’re just going to convert that real estate to wherever the demand is. And there is a diminishing demand for Auto Gas.

Even though more and more of us motorhomers and campervanners are fitting refillable gas bottles, it is such a tiny amount of their business, they’re not interested. So I don’t think we can ever convince them to do it. A motorhome dealer is a different ballgame.

Convincing them is easy, because you can say, “Well, I’m going to buy refillable gas from you, and I’ll come top up my gas with you,” and you’re a customer coming into their premises. And maybe you’ll go in the shop and buy a plastic wine glass or something, you know? But that’s a different scenario.

Vehicle tyres, right. Van tyres. So van tyres are very different to campervan tyres. They’re not as strong in the side walls and have a different tread pattern. So there’s good reason why you would put a campervan tyre on a motorhome, simply because they stand around a lot.

And this is a reason not to put a van tyre on your motorhome, because they are not designed to be stood on for large lengths of time and constantly at weight. So a van is emptied, so it becomes one and a half tonnes loaded, becomes three and a half tonnes. A motorhome is always three or three and a half tonnes.

Keith Gooden

A van is working, usually every day.

Matt Sims

And moving a lot, whereas a motorhome is moving far less and is always at weight. That’s why you have a campervan tyre, and they are built for that purpose.

Keith Gooden

Is the manufacture of that tyre completely different? Is it just the different compounds they use, or the steel bands, or whatever?

Matt Sims

Thicker tyre walls, traditionally, and a different tread pattern for all year use. Those are the main differences I’ve been told by the tyre industry.

Keith Gooden

That’s something I’ve learned today.

Matt Sims

Every day is a school day. That’s not to say you can’t put a van tyre on your motorhome. They’re a lot cheaper, and you could, but just be very mindful at what you’re compromising by doing so.

Keith Gooden

That’s where your investment meets the road. So you don’t want to skimp on it, do you?

Matt Sims

And they’re not that much more. I don’t really understand why you would skimp on that.

Ask Matt

Keith Gooden

Okay, then how do people get in touch then, Matt?

Matt Sims

Really easy. We’d love it if you did. You can record your question or fill in the form. Just head to mhmp.info/askmatt. Whatever the question is, please ask it. We do our best to try and include as many as we can in the podcast, and we also do our best to try and answer all of them. So please, if you’re asking the question, I guarantee there are thousands of other people with the same question.

Keith Gooden

And if you’re looking for trusted brands and services, then make sure you visit the Motorhome Matt Approved directory at mhmp.info/approved.

Matt Sims

I just want to say a massive thank you to the people who have given us such wonderful feedback on this project. We launched Motorhome Matt Approved in response to you, the listeners, saying, “Who can I trust for my tracker, for cleaning my motorhome,” whatever it might be.

And I’ve used loads of these products and brands for years, and it’s been a massive hit. So for those of you who have found it useful, thank you so much for passing that back to us. If you are finding it useful, please let us know. If you’re not, we want to know as well! And if there are brands you think we should be including, tell us too, because we’d love to reach out to them and see if we can get them involved.

Keith Gooden

Tell us about YouTube then, Matt.

Matt Sims

Dead easy. It’s sponsored by www.arobasecrative.co.uk, a lovely bunch of people. Make sure if you’re there that you hit the bell and hit the subscribe button, and then YouTube will tell you when we bring out a new version of the podcast on video.