Can you get your motorhome deposit refunded?

Keith Gooden

In today’s episode of the Motorhome Matt podcast…

Matt Sims

We unpack if you can ever get your motorhome deposit back.

Keith Gooden

In the news, there’s an engine that apparently could be the end of EV.

Matt Sims

And we answer your questions about the left-hand drive market in the UK, pay as you go hook up and B+E licences when driving abroad.

Keith Gooden

Welcome to the Motorhome Matt podcast – industry insights and expert advice for the world of motorhomes, caravans and campervans. I’m Keith Gooden.

Matt Sims

And I’m Motorhome Matt.

Keith Gooden

And it’s all brought to you by www.thatleisureshop.com.

Matt Sims

And do please remember to follow on your favourite podcast app and subscribe on YouTube – brought to you by www.arobasecreative.co.uk.

Is this the end of EVs?

Keith Gooden

Straight into the news- they say it’s definitely the end of electric vehicles. What are they talking about, Matt?

Matt Sims

Well, apparently a 5-stroke hydrogen engine is an innovative new internal combustion engine designed to run on hydrogen fuel. Unlike conventional 4-stroke engines that power most cars and motorhomes today, the 5-stroke engine has an extra idle stroke that allows for the injection and ignition of hydrogen directly into the cylinder.

Keith Gooden

So it’s being hailed as a fantastic new way to build a hydrogen engine. And the difference between electric vehicles and hydrogen is we could use petrol stations to pump hydrogen into cars, rather than build loads of power stations and places to plug in electric vehicles. So this is from a trade magazine. Matt, what do you reckon?

Matt Sims

Who knows? I mean, is it the end of the EV? I’m not so sure. But it’s interesting development. And I think as I’ve said before, it’s an exciting time to be alive and witness the change and evolution of how we travel around in a motorised vehicle from A to B and the move to zero emissions. That’s the highlight of all of this for me. So let’s see. I’m not sure it’s the end of the EV.

Keith Gooden

And whatever happens, if you’re thinking of buying an EV, this probably isn’t going to be on the market for what – at least five years, maybe even 10.

Matt Sims

Probably 20. I might be wrong. Let’s see.

Can you get a motorhome deposit refunded?

Keith Gooden

It’s the Motorhome Matt podcast. I’m Keith Gooden.

Matt Sims

And I’m Motorhome Matt.

Keith Gooden

It’s brought to you with www.thatleisureshop.com. Let’s talk about the main meat of today’s podcast then, Matt. I’ve seen a motorhome I want to buy. I put my deposit down and then I go around the corner and I find it’s cheaper with another dealer. Or maybe there’s a big life change that’s happened – I’ve lost my job. Can I go back and get my deposit? That’s the question.

Matt Sims

That’s a very good question. And it’s one I’ve seen a lot on on Facebook, particularly where people have experienced exactly this. This episode was actually inspired by a customer who came to one of our open days and fell in love with a motorhome that we had for sale and wanted to put a deposit down to buy it.

They said, “I’ve got a deposit on another one.” I said, “Well, don’t put a deposit on this one, then. Go and see if you can get your deposit back before you do that.” Three days earlier, he’d put the other deposit down. And the dealership said no. They wouldn’t refund him anything.

In the end, he negotiated a 50% refund. So it cost him I think £2,500 to make that mistake, if I can call it that. And he did go ahead and buy the motorhome then from us. But it made me think well, what are the rules around this?

So my view has always been – and it turns out to be quite unusual, I have to say – that if somebody puts a deposit down on a motorhome, and we’ve not spent any money getting it ready for them, then we would just refund it in full if they pulled out. And I always thought that was a very fair thing to do.

But it turns out that’s actually quite unusual in the motor trade generally and the motorhome industry too. So I thought I would phone a number of dealerships around the country, good friends of mine, and ask for their opinion. And they’ve all kindly agreed to be quoted in this episode, just to see what their stance was.

So Wayne, who’s the MD of Chelston Motorhomes in Somerset, said, “We make it clear before anything is paid or signed that a deposit is non-refundable. Our view is that the deposit is a part payment and a commitment by the buyer to the final purchase.”

“At the point that deposit is paid, the motorhome is withdrawn from sale. Paying a deposit should be seen as making a payment toward the final balance.” I thought that was very fair, and they make it very clear before you sign it that that’s what you’re engaging in.

Keith Gooden

Because it’s a contract.

Matt Sims

It’s a contract. Absolutely. I spoke to Peter and Gavin at SMC up in Newark and they took a similar stance. They make it very clear in all their terms and conditions that the deposit is going to be non-refundable.

However, they did say they would be prepared to consider a case individually, i.e., a deposit could be transferred to another vehicle and may be held for 12 months until an alternative suitable vehicle was chosen.

My good friend Jason at TMC, Tottington Motor Company, makes it very clear to customers that a deposit payment is non refundable. He did add, though, that in any extenuating circumstances, a refund would be considered on presentation of evidence to support that reason.

So he quoted that he had a customer lose their job after paying a deposit. So he asked for a confirmation from the HR office. And of course, the letter never came! Somebody else was was diagnosed as being very unwell with a limited lifespan ahead of them. And he said, “Well, if you can get us a doctor’s letter that confirms that, we will refund it.”

So I did joke with him, “The only way to get money back from you, then, is either if you get fired or ill!” And he did chuckle. And up the road from us JMT Leisure interestingly have increased the value of their deposit.

Because this was another question -what should the deposit amount be? They used to just take £1,000. They now take typically 10%. Well, that is now typically going to be about £4,000 or £5,000 on a used motorhome.

And they said too it would be non-refundable. But they would consider a refund when the vehicle was resold, less any costs, any difference in the price lost. So that would be deducted from the deposit – or a partial refund with good reason.

Keith Gooden

But that’s the thing, you see. When you’re sitting down and you’re signing that piece of paper and saying, “Hey, we’re putting a deposit on it,” you’re not just holding it so you can go out and get a better deal somewhere else or you might go home and change your mind.

You’ve got to be confident that you can go through with the whole contract. Because I think as you said a little bit earlier, it’s a part payment. The deposit is you showing good faith that the contract you’re signing will be completed. It’s not just something done on spec, is it?

Matt Sims

That’s right. And also, the dealer is not going to sell it to somebody else.

Keith Gooden

Precisely.

Matt Sims

They are going to sell it to you and go through with the deal when you’ve paid the remaining balance. So what I wanted to try and convey with this episode is really for you, the listener and consumer, to not be light hearted when you’re paying a deposit. You may not get it back.

In fact, it’s highly likely you’re not going to get it back if you have a change of heart. So in the trade, we call it buyer’s remorse where the customer goes home, has a change of mind and rings up the next day, “Oh, we’re not sure we’ve made the right decision. Can we have the deposit back?”

The answer is likely to be no. So buyer beware, you know, be mindful of your own actions before you pay that deposit. You are going to be seen as committing to the purchase. So don’t treat it lightly. You’re going to lose it if you have a change of heart.

Keith Gooden

And don’t be suckered in by sales talk from anybody. I’m not suggesting that dealers necessarily are any different to anybody else. A salesman is there to sell the vehicle. And if they go, “Well, we’ve had quite a few people looking at this,” and all the rest of it, then you think, “Well, if I don’t put a deposit down, if I don’t do the deal, I’m going to lose out.”

You have got to be clear minded. And you have got to be absolutely sure that you want that purchase to be completed. Because as Matt says, if you put that deposit down, if it’s £4,000 or £5,000, and you go back and change your mind, if the dealership wants to, they can keep it.

Matt Sims

Of course they can. And actually, you know what? The trading landscape that we’re on at the moment is very different to the one a couple of years ago. So sales have slowed down, without a doubt.

So a dealer is going to be far less keen for you to pull out of the purchase. Maybe two years ago, there might have been a queue of people wanting to buy that motorhome. And yes, possibly they could put it back on the market with a cheeky extra couple of thousand pounds on it because they were going up in price. That is not happening anymore.

The queues out of the shop doors or the dealership doors are not there in the way they were a few years ago. And prices are not climbing in the way they were. So a dealership is going to be very reluctant to willingly just refund you, pull out and try and sell it again because it could take them three to six months to sell it again.

The other consideration as well is the time of year. So we’re recording this in April. If there is going to be some negotiation to get the deposit back, it’s probably going to be easier for you to do that at this time of the year – at the beginning of the season.

Because the dealership knows they’ve got several months of the season left, six or seven months left in order to try and sell that motorhome again. If you’re pulling out of a purchase in October or November, they’re probably going to be sitting on that until February, March, April until customers reappear. So just be very mindful too of the time of year.

Keith Gooden

And when it comes to buying vehicles, there is a little wrinkle in this one which is that in recent years we have seen, haven’t we, these companies which will sell you a car and then they’ll deliver it to your home and all they want you to do is pay for it.

And they say, “You’ve got 14 days to keep the car if you like it.” Actually what they’re quoting is the law. If you distance buy, i.e., you don’t go down to a forecourt and buy it, if you buy it online or down the phone, you are legally entitled to a 14 day cooling off period. That doesn’t apply on the forecourt!

Matt Sims

No. So if you walk into a business and sign the order there and pay the deposit there, you are on site selling. Distance selling is when you’re doing it over the phone or online. It’s worth noting as well that when as an industry we go to an exhibition hall, or any event in a field somewhere in the country – there are lots of these shows around all year and we will be at lots of them – that dealership will add on to their website, “We are also trading at,” and they’ll name the show.

So for example, the big motorhome show that happens every year in the NEC in Birmingham, in February and October, the dealers will all add, “Also selling at.” And that’s so they are circumventing the distance selling rules and the laws that are designed to give you that 14 day cooling off period.

So you’re not going to get it if you buy a motorhome at a show. No, you’re not on the dealership premises, you’re at a show, but the dealership have stated they are selling at that show. And for that period, they are considering that to be their premises and part of their business.

Keith Gooden

There’s no sharp practice going on here. They’re running businesses. Caveat emptor, I think you’ve mentioned earlier on, buyer beware. You, as the buyer, have to be aware of your rights and your protections.

But most of all, don’t go in there thinking, “Aha, I’m going to put my deposit down because that’s what I want to do,” go home and have, as you say, buyer’s remorse, or you haven’t told the other half and you’re in a lot of trouble.

Nobody’s engaging in sharp practice here. This is the law. And you can’t treat dealers like… well, things which you know, will dance to your tune. That’s basically the bottom of this, isn’t it?

Matt Sims

Del boys?

Keith Gooden

Well, you can’t go along and say, “I’m going to look you in the eye, shake your hand, sign a piece of paper, give you £5,000 pounds as a deposit… oh, no, I’ve changed my mind, give me my money back.” You’ve wasted their time and you’ve affected their business. And it’s not reasonable to do that.

Matt Sims

No, it’s not. And also, read the terms and conditions, because you are signing a contract. The deposit is a confirmation of that and a commitment to that, as is your signature. So make sure you’re aware of the terms of anything in that transaction. Because it’s not just about the deposit.

There are other terms and conditions you might need to be aware of too. So make sure you’re fully informed as to the situation with your deposit and your money. And be prepared that if you ask for it back, you’re not going to get it.

Keith Gooden

Read the small print. It’s important. And good dealerships and good salespeople will allow you to do anything you want to do in order to protect yourself and protect them as well. They don’t want to go into business with somebody who’s a flibbertigibbet. They want good, solid business. They want to go forward on that basis and give you great service. They don’t want somebody wasting their time.

Why have motorhome deposits changed?

Keith Gooden

Now, a few years ago, Matt, and I think you touched on this a few minutes ago, it was the case that people were putting deposits down on motorhomes and the motorhomes were getting delayed because of pandemic and because of war and all the rest of it.

And it got to a situation where dealers could ask you for more deposit because the price of the motorhome had gone up. In fact, they asked you for more money on the whole deal. Can you just explain how much of that has changed?

Matt Sims

Yes. I mean, there’s still some truth in that. This is on new motorhomes, of course. Those delays are still apparent. There is stock coming through. But there are still delays on automatic gearboxes on Fiat chassis.

So many people are saying, “Well, I need to order a manual one because I’ve got chance of getting it this millennium.” But price protection is really key as well. And this is where I say read the terms and conditions. Is the motorhome you’re purchasing protected on price?

So if the manufacturer or someone in the supply chain to the manufacturer puts the price of components up, the manufacturer may pass that on to the dealer, and they may choose to pass that on to you and they can. Now, at that point you have a decision, do you want to continue? Are you going to basically suck it up and pay more for it? Or if you pull out, are you going to get your deposit back?

Now, this would be a case by case negotiation. Arguably, the contract you signed with the dealer has been compromised or changed. So you’re entering into a new contract. Therefore, you can pull out of the deal and get your deposit back.

But this is going to have to be a conversation between you at the dealer at the point you pay the deposit. Make sure you are aware – is price protection something that’s going to be presented to you on that contract? Some dealers will put a sticker on the contract, on the purchase order, that says, “This is price protected.”

That is ensuring that that vehicle is not going to go up in price. And they’ve had that commitment from the manufacturer, that the price is not going to go up to them, so they know they can honour it.

There are some dealerships that have swallowed a price increase just to keep the deal on track. And they’ve arguably done the right thing by the consumer, their customer. But check this with your dealer when you’re buying a new motorhome. If the price changes, are you going to have to pay it or you’re going to be able to pull out and get your deposit back?

Audience Q&A

Keith Gooden

It’s the Motorhome Matt podcast. I’m >Keith Gooden.

Matt Sims

And I’m Motorhome Matt.

Keith Gooden

It’s a Q&A, questions and answers, where you ask the questions of Motorhome Matt. He is our expert. But if he doesn’t know the answers, he’ll go out there and find the people who do. First of all, let’s hear from Andrew Garrihy in the Netherlands.

Andrew Garrihy

I’ve got a question I’m hoping you can help me with. First, I love the podcast. You’ve taught me so much about motorhomes. In fact, you inspired me to buy my first one last year. And that’s kind of what my question is about. So I currently live in the Netherlands, but I’m about to move back to the UK.

Last year, I bought a new Bürstner Lyseo TD 690. And I love it and I want to bring it back with me, which I can can do. I can import it as part of my relocation back. But here’s my question. Obviously, it’s a left hand drive. I definitely want to keep it because I do most of my tours in Europe with the left hand drive.

But my concern is, if I do import it and bring it back, versus selling it in Europe before I come back, is there any demand for left hand drive motorhomes in the UK? So if at a future date I want to sell it or if at a future date I want to part exchange it, is there any demand in the UK for left hand drives? Or would I be better off selling it in Europe before I come back and then buying something new?

Keith Gooden

Thanks very much, Andrew in the Netherlands, formerly known as Holland. So is a lefty the righty in the UK?

Matt Sims

Very good, Keith. Very good. It’s a very good question. And thank you for asking it because this question gets asked a lot. And it’s great to have it featured on the podcast. I would say there are two considerations when selling a left hand drive motorhome here in the UK. One is the price is going to be slightly lower than its right hand drive equivalent.

And the other consideration is it’s probably going to take longer to sell because that market is more niche. So it’s people looking for a UK registered motorhome with a steering wheel on the wrong side for use here.

But I would also say that market though has grown in recent years, even the last decade or so, because getting to Europe, although we’re restricted to only going for 90 days, has become more and more popular and far easier than it used to be with the shuttle and so on. It’s very, very accessible. And so more and more people are taking motorhomes over to the continent for their holidays.

And of course, in Europe and all over the continent, motorhoming is really, really easy. I always say it’s far easier than here in the UK, with far more places to stop over and so on. So there are more and more people doing it and driving a left hand drive on the continent is certainly far easier than driving a right hand drive. That is true.

But then of course, conversely, driving a left hand drive here is much harder in some ways. So I’d say be mindful. You might suffer a slight price drop if you’re going to offer it to a dealer to sell. They’re probably going to give you slightly less for it. And it’s probably going to take a little bit longer to sell.

Keith Gooden

Thanks very much, Andrew, and welcome back to the UK at some point.

Keith Gooden

Rob Margerison is in Harrogate. He sent us a question. “Just watched your latest podcast on electricity use and metered hookups at campsites. Very interesting as usual.

We have a campervan fitted with a diesel heater and solar panel. We find it quite hard to find sites which offer pitches without hookup as we don’t rely on electricity provided by the campsite. Both the two main clubs usually have electricity included. The more sites which offer pay as you go the better in my opinion. Thanks for a great podcast and say hi to Chris for me.”

Matt Sims

You’re never going to live that down. I can’t remember who named you. But anyway, they are celebrity here. Thank you so much for the feedback. It was a great episode a few episodes ago with Jools from Petruth Paddocks in Cheddar here in North Somerset, who have recently introduced pay as you go electricity. It’s a trend we’re going to see more and more of.

I think it’s a great feature. It’s fair. And I think it gives us consumers at the campsite a choice on whether or not we want electricity and we want to pay for it. And paying for what you use is certainly a fairer way than having it buried into the campsite pitch fee.

We’re going to undoubtedly see more and more campsites doing this. And I do know that one of the big clubs is certainly undergoing a trial at the moment. They have been for about a year and are looking to roll this out across their campsites. So I’ll say no more at the moment, but I’ve heard on the grapevine that this is likely to happen. So we’ll see.

Keith Gooden

Mike Codona is in Chertsey. “Hi, Matt. On a recent episode, you and your guest appeared to suggest that the B+E licence automatically issued to B class licence holders was not recognised in Europe.

This contradicts the advice given by both the UK Government and the Caravan and Motorhome Club. As I’m sure you’re aware, this situation would be an effective ban on towing larger caravans on a UK licence as no test is available.

Matt Sims

Indeed. He goes on to say, “Do you have any reference for the regulations you’re referring to so that I can refer it to the Caravan and Motorhome Club’s legal helpline?” Well, it’s an interesting point.

And I raised the question. When it was presented to me, I said, “Really? So this means I can’t tow a caravan in Europe because our licence is not recognised in the EU?” And I thought, “This can’t be right.”

So in the following week’s episode – keep listening, Mike – we talk to Fliss the trailer lady. And we asked her the question about the rules and where it is actually written down that you can’t tow a caravan that means you can be legal here and illegal in France, or the rest of the continent. And it’s a very interesting conversation.

So if you want to listen to the episode that Mike is referring to, it’s called, “Are UK driving licences changing?” It’s the fourth European directive review of the driving licence. There’s an interview with David Whitehead, and then the consecutive episode featuring Fliss on this exact point.

Ask Matt

Keith Gooden

Okay, then Matt. How do people get in touch?

Matt Sims

Really easily. And please do! Go to mhmp.info/askmatt. Click the orange button and record your question. Please tell us where in the world you are or fill out the form and we’ll read the question for you.

Keith Gooden

That’s mhmp.info/askmatt. Or you can subscribe on YouTube as well.

Matt Sims

Click subscribe and remember to hit the bell. And our YouTube channel is sponsored by www.arobasecreative.co.uk.

Keith Gooden

And it would only be fair if you did a share. How do people do that?

Matt Sims

Be fair and share. Just tell a friend about it. Send them a link. Invite someone to listen. They might find it entertaining and informative too.