Keith Gooden
In today’s episode of the Motorhome Matt podcast…
Matt Sims
We’re back at the Newbury show, this time behind the scenes asking dealers what they think the future of shows looks like.
Keith Gooden
In the news we check out the all new VW California series.
Matt Sims
And we answer your questions on using a French made A-frame and using alloy wheel spacers to increase track width of a motorhome.
Keith Gooden
Welcome to the Motorhome Matt podcast. I’m Keith Gooden.
Matt Sims
And I’m Motorhome Matt.
Keith Gooden
Industry insights and expert advice for the world of motorhomes, caravans and campervans, and it’s brought to you by www.thatleisureshop.com.
Matt Sims
Now, please – we always ask you to do this, but please subscribe on your favourite podcast app and make sure you do the same on YouTube, as it helps really spread the word of the podcast. And our YouTube channel is brought to you by our friends at www.arobasecreative.co.uk.
In the news: The new VW California
Keith Gooden
Straight into the news, then – the all new Volkswagen California campervan series was unveiled in Germany a few weeks ago, Matt.
Matt Sims
The California has long held the title of the world’s most renowned campervan, boasting over 280,000 units sold to date.
Keith Gooden
And I think I was behind all of them on the M4 the other day. So what do you think of the brand new California, Matt?
Matt Sims
Well, we had a sneak peek of this in Dusseldorf last year and I have to say it had a big crowd around it. It looks really cool. If a California is your thing – and for me it’s not, as it’s just too small. It’s a bit like posh tenting for me. But what’s interesting is it’s got two sliding doors which makes it feel really airy inside – spacious.
Keith Gooden
‘Airy?
Matt Sims
Airy with no H! Like you, not hairy. Also, you can buy it as a hybrid, so a plug in hybrid, diesel or petrol. So you’ve got a real choice of which power. I think this is the only fossil fueled vehicle that VW is still going to make. Everything else they make is electric.
Keith Gooden
Isn’t hybrid the way to go? Because you get the advantages of be able to plug it in, have a bit of battery power when you’re doing short distances. And if you need to go longer range you’ve got the fuel engine as well.
Matt Sims
Yes, that’s true, provided you can get to electricity to recharge it. This is a plug in hybrid.
Keith Gooden
So it doesn’t charge from the engine at all?
Matt Sims
No. Not to my knowledge. And what I don’t know, actually, is how many miles you can run on electric. I don’t know! It’ll be on their website. But you have to be able to get the power to recharge it, and that’s not always practical if you’re off grid camping and you’re nowhere near electricity. So yes, maybe petrol or diesel is the way forward. And certainly as they launch this, that is an option, to buy a fossil fuel powered one.
The Southern Motorhome and Campervan Show
Keith Gooden
Welcome to the Motorhome Matt podcast. I’m Keith Gooden.
Matt Sims
And I’m Motorhome Matt.
Keith Gooden
It’s all brought to you with www.thatleisureshop.com. Welcome! We’re outdoors again. We’re at a show. Which show are we at, Matt?
Matt Sims
We’re at the Southern Motorhome and Caravan Show at Newbury, once again.
Keith Gooden
Fantastic. And in this podcast, we’re going to be delving into something a bit different. We’re looking at it from the point of view of the dealers and the people who sell things to motorhomers, caravanners and campers. So I suppose what we’re doing is reflecting what people see behind the fancy marketing and the nice signs, aren’t we?
Matt, you’ve said in the past that business is a little bit tougher than it was a couple of years ago. It’s a little harder to sell a motorhome than it was post-pandemic. Is that really the case? And if it is, how’s it affecting the businesses, the people that are actually feeding the pastime?
Matt Sims
Absolutely. I thought it’d be interesting to get the point of view and the insight into some of the traders and the dealers, friends of mine who come to these shows – some for the first time – and get their take on it. And we all have a view of what the customer is looking for. And I thought it’d be really interesting to get their insight and get them to share their view of the marketplace we’re in and the landscape we’re in now.
Keith Gooden
Now, they’re not going to tell us everything. There are always trade secrets. They’re not always going to tell us about how business really is, but hopefully we can delve deep enough so we can get an idea of not how difficult it is to be a dealer or a supplier in this past time, but certainly some of the challenges as well as the advantages.
Matt Sims
Absolutely. These shows, you see, are really quite unique to our industry. There are shows within many niches but these shows are so well attended. People come, thousands of them, with their motorhomes and camp and spend the weekend.
And they are almost like a holiday, a destination for many repeating it throughout the year. And for the dealers too, it’s touring around all of the shows. A lot of money is spent at these shows and I’m intrigued to know, what future do the shows have this year and into 2025?
Are we going to see them boom and grow? It was interesting last year, speaking to a number of traders, the accessory stand holders who were kind of moaning, saying, “The high street’s changed. It’s collapsing. The shows aren’t the same as they used to be.”
And of course they’re not. The shows have evolved. And I think those businesses, those traders, hadn’t evolved. And as a businessman myself, I’m a firm believer that if you don’t innovate, you will evaporate. And for them, they have disappeared from the show. The shows are different, but I want to try and find out how they have changed.
What do dealers think about motorhome shows?
Keith Gooden
Matt has got somebody very special with him.
Matt Sims
I’ve got Toby with me from Home on Wheels. Toby, this is your first time at a Warners show – in fact, any motorhome or campervan show.
Toby
It’s been the most unbelievable experience. We have had such a warm reception from everyone. People are really interested and excited by our products, which gives our products a lot of validity as well. It means that what we’ve believed in for a long time in creating the product is actually coming to a reality. And we’re seeing customers actually really like it.
Matt Sims
Now, your product is a conversion kit for a VW van. So you take an empty van and convert it into a campervan, but you sell the internals so people can modularly build their own. Is that right?
Toby
Exactly. So we find that a lot of people don’t necessarily have the budget to just convert their van all in one. And they also sometimes want to customise pieces themselves. So they want to build their furniture themselves, but they don’t necessarily know how to do electrics. So where we sort of found our niche is by supplying all of the parts that people need for their conversion to their specification, but only building the bits that they don’t want to do.
So say you’ve got a pop top but you don’t necessarily want to cut a massive hole in your roof, we can do that part for you and then supply you all of the parts for the rest of it, but supply that at a pace that’s comfortable for you.
When you do your electrics, we can supply the electrics. When you do your plumbing, we can supply the plumbing so you can spread that period out as you build so you don’t have so much stuck at home that maybe your other half is getting fed up of you and maybe getting you to sleep in the van more nights than you were planning. And yeah, it’s quite a nice solution for people and we’ve had a really good response.
Matt Sims
Out of interest, have you designed this business as a response to a changing landscape? Because this is relatively new. I mean, being able to build your own campervan has been around forever, since campervans have been around. But is this a response from your business to a changing landscape?
Toby
Yeah, so we used to do just conversions and bespoke conversions for people. And whether it’s bespoke conversions or just general campervan conversions that you’re buying off the street as we are here, the market is slowing down a little bit.
And what we believe is happening and the reason that our business might be taking up now is that people don’t want to spend quite that much money. Maybe 40% of a conversion cost is the labour that goes into it.
And some people really want to build their own because then they’ve really put their own love into it. They’ve had their own stamp on it. And they’ve also saved 40% of the cost by doing it themselves, which is a labour of love for them. So it’s priceless for them to do themselves.
Matt Sims
And what kind of take up have you had?
Toby
We’ve had a lot of orders for our rail seats. They’ve been really popular. And the kitchen, we’ve actually had people who have seen them on eBay and then heard we’re at the show and now actually want to come and see in real life what they actually involve.
So we’ve had a couple of people who hopefully will start coming through on them, and then conveniently we’ve had a lot of people around the Warwickshire area where they want to come in and have a proper sit down consultation so we can build the kits out for them.
Matt Sims
Brilliant. Well, I think you’re onto something, Toby, I really do. I think you’ve hit the nail on the head – people don’t always want to spend all the money to have their own campervan. They are prepared to do some of the work themselves or all of the work themselves. And you do training as well, don’t you, so you can kind of nurture people through it.
Toby
What we’re currently doing is we’re producing a custom van every six weeks. And sometimes that will be one that we buy. Sometimes that will be a customer one that they buy, but we’ve tried to get customers who are keen to be quite creative. So then we build a new concept of van. And then we can basically sell that van and add that to our stock library to get that out there as well.
Keith Gooden
Tell us about your customer. Is it the traditional motorhome buyer? Or have you noticed that the market is changing – the customers themselves, perhaps how old they are? Maybe people are on a tighter budget.
Toby
For the rail system, for example, we seem to get a lot of people who are in the trades. So they want to go away for a couple of days. And they want to be able to move that bed all the way forward to then be able to put all of their stuff in or maybe build a module actually for their own stuff.
And for the actual conversion, I thought that we were going to have loads of tradesmen again who have the skills to do it. But funnily enough, it’s lots of office space people who, maybe like we did a few years ago when we started the company, had had enough of the nine to five in an office and want to do something a bit different.
They want to be a bit creative. And we’ve had some success stories as well where actually people are quite entrepreneurial and they want to convert a van themselves to then sell it and make a bit of money as their sort of side hustle. As you know, we have everyone that has their second jobs now and this can be a second job for someone.
Matt Sims
One big question. Will you come to another show in the future, do you think? Are shows part of your business future?
Toby
100%. The Warners shows have been absolutely brilliant. Coming to our first show, it was really stressful, setting everything up, getting a camper ready to present. They’ve been so flexible, and we’ve got a really good spot.
There are so many people interested and the community around the shows as well – it’s not like everyone’s fighting against everyone. Everyone’s got their own little niche, and everyone’s really supportive. So it’s a really nice industry to be part of.
Matt Sims
I’m here with Deborah from DG Motorhomes based in Cambridge. Deborah, you’ve got a fair old commute to come to this show in Newbury, haven’t you?
Deborah
Yeah, about two and a half hours each way. And to get all these vans here it’s quite a trek.
Matt Sims
And when did you first arrive at the show?
Deborah
Wednesday.
Matt Sims
And how many drivers do you need?
Deborah
Eight.
Matt Sims
So it’s a big logistical effort.
Deborah
It is, definitely.
Matt Sims
It’s juggling the ones with towbars that you can put a tow car on the back so you can get back to base and bring the next, isn’t it?
Deborah
And when you sell them, making sure you’ve still got the towbar ones left to get the cars back!
Matt Sims
So how’s the show gone so far?
Deborah
Really good. We’ve done three, and we’ve done lots of possible part exchanges. We’re just waiting for people to mull it over and come back to us.
Matt Sims
Are shows a big part of DG Motorhomes?
Deborah
Yeah, we try and do about six a year.
Matt Sims
And do you think you’ll do more next year?
Deborah
Possibly, if we can get the stock and the staff.
Matt Sims
And what’s the consumer’s view of buying a motorhome at the moment? Things have slowed down a bit, haven’t they?
Deborah
They’ve slowed down a little bit, but we are still turning over quite a lot of sales ourselves. I think in our location where we’re based in Cambridgeshire, we’ve not got that much competition, which helps.
Matt Sims
Right, okay. So that’s where I need to set up, then!
Keith Gooden
So you’ve got a lot of motorhomes here today. How many of you brought down?
Deborah
16 – But we took two that sold yesterday home, and we’ve brought two back. So now it’s a total of 18 here at the show. So
Keith Gooden
When people buy them at the show, do they drive them home straight away?
Deborah
Never! No, they normally come and collect within about two weeks.
Keith Gooden
Tell us about the customers at a show like Newbury. We’re in the Thames Valley. Everybody says there’s loads of money around down here. Is that the case?
Deborah
I’m not sure. A lot of people are still thinking about putting a deposit down. But we’ve done three definites, so hopefully we’ll do some more before the weekend’s out.
Keith Gooden
And your point of view as somebody who sells motorhomes to the customer who we broadcast to,how are people buying them? Is it finance or are cash buyers putting money on the nail?
Deborah
I’d say the majority is cash. There are a few finance deals, but not many.
Keith Gooden
And why do you think that is?
Deborah
I think maybe funds are available more than what the media is saying. We haven’t noticed a recession. People are still buying, and they’re buying high-end vans as well.
Keith Gooden
Is it all the grey pound?
Deborah
Yes!
Matt Sims
So you’re not seeing a change in the demographic getting younger?
Deborah
No, no, we sell more to the older generation. Not so many families. But we are still doing a good turnover.
Matt Sims
The thing with the older generation now coming around to retirement – they’re the punk rockers, aren’t they?
Deborah
Yeah, they are!
Matt Sims
Just like me! I was a punk rocker. I’m 64 now.
Deborah
Well, you look 21.
Keith Gooden
You look 19!
Matt Sims
There’s a little bit of sick in my mouth.
Keith Gooden
It’s the Motorhome Matt podcast. I’m Keith Gooden.
Matt Sims
And I’m Motorhome Matt.
Keith Gooden
It’s brought to you with www.thatleisureshop.com. Now, Matt, we have a special guest again, another one of your mates.
Matt Sims
This is an old friend of mine. I’m with the lovely Guy Tegg from Webbs Motor Caravans. Guy, how are you?
Guy Tegg
Very well, thank you.
Matt Sims
How long have you been in this industry?
Guy Tegg
Just over 20 years.
Matt Sims
And how long have you been coming to shows?
Guy Tegg
20 years!
Matt Sims
Most of that time! And you’ve sold a fair few motorhomes and campervans, haven’t you?
Guy Tegg
I have indeed.
Matt Sims
So shows for you, Guy, at Webbs, they’ve been a big part of your marketing strategy in the past. You’re now only coming to the Newbury show. How’s it gone for you?
Guy Tegg
It was a good day yesterday, with regards to this show. Not great today, and we don’t do many outdoor shows anymore. This is the only one we do.
Matt Sims
And why is that?
Guy Tegg
We used to do loads of them. I think they got quite diluted. I don’t know whether people just came out because they saw it as a weekend away. Maybe it’s that we bought the wrong stock. We used to come with new. We’ve now walked away from new. Used has been selling well for the last few years. So no need to drag it to shows. We do this one because it’s literally on our doorstep.
Matt Sims
Yes, you’re around the corner. So how has the landscape changed? We’ve been on a roller coaster in terms of COVID. The last four years has been very turbulent. How is it the landscape now?
Guy Tegg
The last four years has been phenomenal. Some businesses have mopped up, some haven’t. I think we’ve done really well. People say to me now, “Is it over? What’s your view?” I don’t think it’s over. I think when we look back what we did in ’17, ’18, ’19, we’re back there again.
There are other factors making it slightly harder with war, interest rates, cost of living, fuel, but we’ve mustered onthrough. And I think that what’s happening now is used prices are coming back down to where they should be and I think that needs to happen.I said we walked away from new back in 2018 and I’m ultimately glad we did. And the prices of those have gone through the roof and they don’t seem to be stabilising any time soon.
Matt Sims
But doesn’t that just prop up the used market, though? Because people don’t want to give their used one away for a massive loss.
Guy Tegg
Yes, artificially. It pumps prices up hugely, but it’s not sustainable. They won’t ever go back, I don’t think, to where they were. But yeah, I think it does need to settle.
Matt Sims
I think it’s been a pendulum swing, hasn’t it? It’s happening at the moment.
Guy Tegg
Yeah, it is. And we’re just sticking to used. We do used only. I mean, we do a lot of used and certain trends that have been popping over last few years we’ve stopped doing – so massively reduced Volkswagen camper vans, for example. I find that market is very diluted. We just keep a token few in now.
Matt Sims
When you say diluted do you mean saturated as in there’s loads of them?
Guy Tegg
Yeah. Literally everyone’s producing them. That was a huge thing for the staycation. A lot of people come out with them now and I believe there’s a huge amount on the market. Then transit cottoned on. So yeah, the pop top market I genuinely have cooled down on.
Matt Sims
And what about the audience, the consumer? Has that changed? Have you seen the demographic change?
Guy Tegg
We saw a huge amount of obviously younger families during the staycation when you couldn’t go abroad, I believe in the caravan market. Obviously, we have a caravan branch. That family market again went through the roof.
Yeah, literally anyone would buy anything for the last few years. Now, I do believe the family market is finding it hard work with their mortgage rates going up, cost of living with young kids, car on finance, motorhomes are being financed – that market has gotten a bit harder.
Matt Sims
And you’re finding that people are taking finance or need to to make the purchase?
Guy Tegg
They need to but they can’t generally afford the finance payments, so they’re making a big decision in their purchase.
Keith Gooden
Let’s talk about the used market, because you’re saying you’re dealing in all used. Surely you need people buying new, not necessarily from you, but you need people buying new for them to become used a couple of years later. Can you just explain how that whole ladder works?
Guy Tegg
We’ve seen it before when chassis are short or products are short or consumers are short. It obviously it has a knock-on effect. You know, if that van isn’t made today, it’s not going to be three years old in three years’ time.
So yeah, that’s an artificial hiking of the prices, so that’s where it will stabilise because I believe new is coming through now. So yes, we’re keen on other people selling new – it’s just not really our game anymore.
Matt Sims
And you’re seeing a boom in new coming available now? Chassis are coming through.
Guy Tegg
Obviously not for me, but people I know in the trade are saying a lot of new is coming through now. Chassis are readily available again now. I think we had all sorts of problems with semiconductor factory fires, the Ukraine war, and Brexit in itself I think slowed new up in general, but I think we’re over that now.
Matt Sims
Generally, are people here buying their first motorhome or are they part exchanging something else?
Guy Tegg
At this show, no. We see people that are here in their motorhomes. They’re generally here for the weekend. We’ve taken a couple of parts exchange from the camping fields already this weekend. They are good in themselves. We just don’t do as many of them.
Matt Sims
Brilliant. Well, the sun’s come back out. I wish you a better afternoon.
Guy Tegg
I need some suncream for my head!
Matt Sims
With your head yeah. If you ever meet Guy, it’s a bit like Keith. It’s like a solar panel.
Keith Gooden
Great rain detector.
Guy Tegg
I was going to say exactly that. I was the first one to know earlier when it was raining!
Keith Gooden
It’s the Motorhome Matt podcast. I’m Keith Gooden.
Matt Sims
And I’m Motorhome Matt.
Keith Gooden
It’s brought to you with www.thatleisureshop.com. And I am walking down the main thoroughfare with Matt at one of the best shows in the UK.
Matt Sims
It certainly is. It’s local to us. This is a Southern Motorhome and Campervan Show in Newbury. It’s local-ish to us in Bristol. 200 traders, 40-odd dealers, a big range of motorhomes and campervans for sale, and stacks of accessories and choice to look at in the trading area. And this is a show you can camp at. So people are here for the weekend, and come Saturday afternoon, they’re all pretty chilled out, I have to say.
Keith Gooden
Like you say, it’s a Saturday and the sun is out. Ice creams are being consumed and plenty of business is going on. In this podcast we’re holding the mirror up. It’s a reflection. It’s looking at motorhoming, campervan and caravanning through the eyes of the dealer.
And we’ve heard some really quite inspiring stories, I think, Matt. People are doing business. The pandemic and the war has had an effect, but we’re being told that businesses are coming back round. It’s the same but different, if that makes sense.
Matt Sims
Yeah, it is. People are out spending money. We’re seeing families coming to this show, but people are saying it’s still the same kind of grey pound spending the money. I’m not sure that’s entirely true as an industry.
But of course you need to have funds available and motorhomes themselves and campervans are not a cheap investment anymore. But despite that, there are big numbers of vehicles here being sold. It’s encouraging.
Keith Gooden
Yeah, what we’re hearing from the dealers as they speak to us, and you’re hearing some on this podcast, is that business has changed. It’s been a struggle from time to time. But new is coming through, which means there’s a bit more used. And people at this show in particular are looking at and buying used.
Matt Sims
That’s right. And this is predominantly a used motorhome show. There are new vehicles here. But if you’re in the market for something that is one or 10 years old, then it’s a great place to start to have a look, explore layouts and look at something that perhaps is a little more affordable than a brand new £100,000 motorhome.
Keith Gooden
And as you said when we started this link, people can come here with their motorhomes and caravans and they can camp here on the site and come to the show over the weekend. So when it comes to buying or trading up or even trading down, they can take the dealer to their motorhome or campervan which is parked in the next field, can’t they?
Matt Sims
Absolutely right, which is what Guy at Webbs Motor Caravans has done today. He’s been looking at a couple for part exchange. And the same with accessories as well. If you want an accessory fitted to your motorhome or campervan, you can take that trader back to your van and they can look at what’s needed to put the awning on or fit a new leisure battery.
Or if you’ve got something that’s broken, you need a new water pump, you could take a trader back to your stand and they will fix it for you after the show that evening. At the end of every show we see the trailers going off their stands with electric scooters, electric bikes and boxes of stuff and delivering it to people in the camping fields. So it’s a really useful resource if you’re coming in with your van.
Matt Sims
I’m here with a very well known face in the industry. When I say well known, I mean you’re old and you’ve been in the industry a long time. It’s the lovely Keith from Campingaz.
Keith
Hi! Yeah, I’m Keith. I’ve been with Coleman and Campingaz now for just over 26 years. Man and boy.
Matt Sims
Man and boy? Man and man. It’s great to see you back at the show and actually back at work. You’ve had a bit of a health scare.
Keith
Right at the end of the summer last year, I was diagnosed with prostate cancer. It was a bit of a shock. No symptoms. I didn’t even know I had it. I was just having a checkup. And you know, you’ve got to be careful. A man of my age, you don’t want to go see the doctor – you know he’s going to do things and stick his finger where he shouldn’t!
But they don’t do that anymore. They do a simple blood test. And yeah, I unfortunately found out I had prostate cancer. So I had an operation in January, and they said, “You could be off work for three months.” But I was back behind the desk after four weeks and back out on the road after six weeks. And now I’m back doing the shows. It’s great to be out and again and seeing all the people we see when we do a show.
Matt Sims
You’ve been doing shows like this for years. What’s the highlight of these shows for you?
Keith
It’s always meeting somebody who you sold a piece of equipment to many moons ago and they come back and they tell you how much they love using it and how well it serves them. And when you work for a brand like Coleman or Campingaz, people have been tied into it for so long. Their parents used it, their grandparents used it and it continues to perform and provide them exactly what they want – to get out into the outdoors. And that’s great.
Matt Sims
Well, we’ve had our little Campingaz stove out every night this week here at the show and cooking tea on it. And it’s lasted us about probably 20 years. It lasts a long time!
Keith
I’ve got stoves that I bought before I joined the company 26 years ago. And they’re still as good today as they were then. It is brilliant. We’re all about not so much camping, but it’s all about where we are cooking, because when you’re in the great outdoors, you’re always going to be cooking and eating somewhere different.
And that’s the strap line. It’s not about just the campsite, it could be going to the beach with a party grill, it could be a party in the park, it’s where we’re going to cook. Somewhere different. It’s giving you the freedom to get out there and enjoy it.
Matt Sims
And a lot of work goes into putting on these shows for our own stands. Are shows going to be a big part of Campingaz this year and next year?
Keith
Even more so. We’re lining up a special team of chefs to go out and attend shows like this and get out there and show people how to use the cooking equipment. It’s so important for us to come out, showcase new products, new inventions, new things that we’re doing, how we’re driving the business forward and getting out the gas safety message as well.
Because for the refillable cylinders we need a good recycling message, the resealable cylinders, a good safety message, and the fact that we’ve got a solution for everybody all the time. And that’s what it’s all about.
Matt Sims
And how have the shows changed, do you think, over the time you’ve been doing them? In 20-odd years they certainly have changed.
Keith
They’ve changed, and obviously the internet is a big part of it. It used to be about what the price was on the day. Now people want to know that they’ve got the best price because they can see the best price online. But also people come better informed because they can do their research before they come to the show.
What they really want from the show is they want to touch it, feel it, see it and fully understand how it works. And that’s what this show environment’s about – meeting people, getting them using the kit, getting them feeling it, touching it and knowing that they made that right decision.
Keith Gooden
it’s the Motorhome Matt podcast brought to you with www.thatleisureshop.com. We’re at the Southern Motorhome and Campervan show in Newbury. And the podcast today is holding the mirror up. Instead of talking from a customer’s point of view, we’re talking from a dealer’s point of view today because this show is full of dealers. And we’ve been meeting a lot of Matt’s friends. We’re talking to another one right now.
Matt Sims
I’m with Justin from Speeds Campers. Justin, you’ve done loads of these shows, haven’t you?
Justin
Yes, we have now. We’ve been around quite a while.
Matt Sims
And how many shows are you doing this year?
Justin
We’re going to do all of the shows this year with Warners. We enjoy the Warners shows. They’re good for us. They’re good for our brand awareness. And they’re good for sales. You know, we’ve got a lot of customers now from previous shows. And we like meeting them at the shows as we travel around. So it’s good, very good.
Matt Sims
Now, you’ve got two brand new models here at the Newbury show. You’ve got the Ripasso, which you launched earlier this year.
Justin
Yep, that’s correct – back in January at the Stoneleigh Warners show.
Matt Sims
And you’ve also got the MAN Wildcat, which is an amazing beast.
Justin
That’s our newest one. That was launched here this weekend. It’s a fabulous MAN van, four by four, massive specification. So yeah, exciting.
Matt Sims
A massive screen price, though?
Justin
It’s a big ticket. But some of these things are!
Matt Sims
Now, it’s behind me. I’m remembering… it’s £125,000?
Justin
That’s correct.
Matt Sims
And what sort of interest have you had? Because that’s a life changing sum of money.
Justin
Listen, it’s a new thing for us. It’s a new field that we are venturing into. We haven’t really got much competition with it being a four wheel drive van. And the interest has been amazing. We’ve already taken two orders. So that sort of puts it where it needs to be!
Matt Sims
So how have sales been for you at this show, and generally this year?
Justin
This weekend has been fantastic. We’ve done really well. And this year has been good. It’s better than expected.
Matt Sims
Good. So people are out there spending money, then.
Justin
Oh, yes, they are.
Matt Sims
And these vans, I’m looking at ticket prices in the windscreens – we’re sort of £55,000 plus. A £55,000 van, I’m assuming, isn’t brand new, is it?
Justin
No, no, no, no. They’d be three to four years old.
Matt Sims
Yeah. So are prices going up still? Or do you think they’re going to level off?
Justin
I think they’ve probably peaked a little bit, unless you have something quite individual. Then you can push the price a little bit. But, you know, overall, I think prices have peaked. And I think people are happy at the level that they’re at.
Matt Sims
And do you think people are in the market for new, or is there more of a drive to buying a used van?
Justin
I’m finding people are more interested in new. You know, we do have quite a large used selection of stock always, which does sell, but I’m getting a lot more interest for the new vehicles.
Matt Sims
And do you think the show’s as popular as ever with the consumers, with footfall?
Justin
Yes, I do. Yeah, I think it is. This weekend has been amazing. The footfall has been fantastic. You know, it’s a lot busier than I thought it was going to be. We’ve had some good weather, which is always good! It’s a big help. And Warners have put on a great show. The facilities are great.
Keith Gooden
If I could just ask a quick question – what sort of customers are here? I mean, from what you’re saying, they’re coming with their buying heads on and not just looking heads. Something has changed, hasn’t it?
Justin
I think so, because we’ve noticed in a couple of shows at the beginning of the year, it was completely the opposite. The buyers weren’t there. There was a lot more window shopping going on. Whereas this weekend, people have been a lot more decisive, a little bit more impulsive. And they’ve been getting their chequebooks out, which is what I need them to do!
Keith Gooden
We’re with Orange Campers right now with Richard, who’s the big boss man. Is that right?
Richard
I am now when my wife’s not here, but yes.
Matt Sims
She’s the real boss. Yeah.
Keith Gooden
So you do the show. You don’t do the NEC. Why don’t you do the NEC?
Richard
Purely because we’re a small family business. And to cope with a massive volume at the NEC, you put the rest of the show’s under stress and what have you. So, you know, for now, we’re quite happy doing the small shows.
Keith Gooden
It costs a lot of money, doesn’t it?
Richard
And it does cost a fortune. Yes. Six days in an air conditioned building is not the best week spent selling motorhomes. You know, I love the outdoors. That’s why we’re in this business, to be outdoors, you know.
Keith Gooden
And we certainly are here at Newbury this Saturday. A little bit of rain around 11 this morning. But since then it’s been sunshine and warming up, isn’t it?
Richard
Yeah, it’s been gorgeous. And the little bit of rain gave me the idea to put the canopy on the rear doors of a Fiat there. And people love it. You know, it’s really showing a prime example of what you can do when it’s raining. You know, we don’t live in Spain. So we put up with a bit of rain, but there’s always a gadget and what have you at these shows that you can see for first time and think it’sa great idea.
Keith Gooden
Now, this podcast, we’re holding the mirror up to the dealers instead of doing it from a customer point of view. It’s about the dealer point of view, particularly at shows like this. You’ve already said that you see value in those shows in a little thing like putting the canopy up when we had a few spits of rain today. But do the shows generate business for you? Are you selling?
Richard
Well, the shows are a great way of people finding out where we are, we’re a small family business based in Rotherham, a workshop, and who would ever find us without the aid of these outdoor shows?
It’s great for a dealer to come to these shows. And you can go head to head with some of the biggest names out there. And it gives you a great confidence to be able to produce something equal to some of the names I’ve grown up with and followed all my life as a campervan enthusiasts.
Keith Gooden
So just for people who’ve never heard of you before, what exactly do you do?
Richard
So we do a small campervan, and we’re a family based campervan. But we’re not the VW small, we’re just the next size up. We’re a bit of a niche in between a family van. That’s why we always offer the bigger fridge and things because it is more family based, or couples will want that. Not the tiny van, we don’t want a big van. And we’re somewhere hopefully in between.
Matt Sims
So five seatbelts in this one behind us, for example. So ideal if you’ve got three kids and there’s five of you. You’ve launched a new van here at the show this weekend. How have cells and interest gone on that one for you?
Richard
It’s gone massively, you know. It’s been a great week, we said we’re launching it here. Because on paper, you can’t describe things. You can read about it, you can look at it on pictures, but until you get in it and open every cupboard, and have a good feel of it, you know, you can’t judge how good it suits you.
And that’s the beauty of these shows, going into one van, and then coming into another van. And we hope they come back to us and realise ours are very good vans. And it gives you that exposure to lots of different builds. Whereas you couldn’t get that going from dealer to dealer.
Keith Gooden
Yeah. And if we talk about the NEC, not knocking it in any way, there’s sometimes queues of people trying to get in to see things. It’s much more relaxed here. And I noticed on your stand people in and out of the van, so you’re not hassling them. They’re taking their time.
Richard
No, it’s a great place to come. And it’s very laid back, as you say and very open. I mean, we’ll sit here and have some lunch, you know, and afterwards, we are physically camping on this pitch. So we’ll set the barbecue going, crack a few beers open. And you know, we love the shows, because it’s a great camping weekend for us as well as you.
Keith Gooden
Let’s talk about your customers, specifically your customers. Are they the younger sorts with less money than those huge ticket screen prices? Or is it still the grey pound?
Richard
Yeah, well, no, it’s not. It’s a slightly younger market. And we have noticed that. It’s not a young market, because let’s be honest, young people don’t really have the funds necessary to get up to £80,000 on some of these Transits and things. But it is a slightly younger market like ourselves. I mean, I’m in my 50s and we’ve got two young children, you know, we left it quite late to have kids.
And we’re finding a lot of people in this same situation where the kids are loving this outdoor life and it’s great for them. But I mean, there is a certain age bracket between. But yeah, we do tend to have a slightly younger audience, but then we have got some single ladies who have unfortunately lost their husbands and so on.
And they love our vans because it gives them that freedom and a bit more space. A bit more luxury is what they want rather than a small compact campervan. It’s just to stretch too far for them.
Matt Sims
So I’m here with Paula from Motorhome Essentials. I’m engaging the enemy!
Paula
Hi, Matt!
Matt Sims
Now, we both sell similar stuff. There’s crossover between our shops. But you’ve done the shows for years. How are they for you?
Paula
I think every year they get better and better for us. It’s all about changing your lines to suit the current marke.Trends have changed. Years ago, people wouldn’t look twice at a sheepskin seat cover. Now it’s probably one of our best sellers.
Matt Sims
Why is that, do you think?
Paula
We owe a lot to vloggers. A lot of these vloggers, Northerners on Tour, the Roaming Radfords, they’ve all got our seat covers, and you just need one mention. They’ve got thousands of followers. And that’s it.
Then everyone wants those seat covers, because that’s what they’ve got on their motorhome, and it does make a huge difference just having a mention. I don’t know, it’s changing, it’s keeping current as well.
A lot of the customers are hardy, year in, year out, same faces. So you’ve got to change. You’ve got to have something different when they come. You dont want, “We’ve had your seat covers for 15 years, we’ve had your mats for 10 years, we’ve had that shammy leather off you for eight years.” You need something to sell them. Product lasts too long!
Matt Sims
Retail has changed and online has totally transformed retail. We know that in our own business, having launched online and in store, and we’re doing all the shows, as you are. But I hear traders complaining about shows, that they’re more like the high streets, they’re harder work. They don’t make the sales that they used, the footfall’s not as strong. You know, they open up their gazebo and it doesn’t really take off. What’s your view?
Paula
There’s a lot to be said for what you’re selling. If what you’re selling is available readily on Amazon or eBay, you get people standing in front of you and they’re going, “Oh, we can get this on Amazon freely delivered tomorrow.” They don’t need to buy it then. I think it’s having something different than they can’t get.
I mean, I know just for instance, the trader just down there who trades as MoHow, he now makes a lot of his own products using 3d printers for all sorts of door catches and door window catch locks and things like that. And it’s just doing something that no one else does. So you can only buy from him at the shows. But if you’re turning up selling a beer mug, it’s the wrong demographic.
Matt Sims
It’s trying to avoid me too products. So innovating at the show, then, is really important. And of course, that’s a reason for people to come to a show, isn’t it? And for someone who’s never been to a show, Keith joked earlier that they were armchair motorhomers, you know, they’re just sat there looking. They don’t actually do it. What would you say to someone who’s considering coming to a show who’s maybe never been to one before?
Paula
Well, Warner shows especially because of the entertainment – that’s a big pull. It’s not like the NEC where you’re walking around thousands and thousands of trade stands and motorhomes This is a whole weekend where you’ve got all the entertainment.
You’re meeting like minded people. You can go and listen to the chats and the talks. I think you do some yourself in the tents where you can pick up tips and just listen to other people’s woes and problems they’ve come across. It’s just a like minded community. Obviously, it all depends on the weather. It makes it a hell of a difference, the weather!
Matt Sims
That’s the clincher, isn’t it? We’ve been lucky this weekend. It has been sunny all weekend. That’s made a massive difference. And the shows this year – what do you think we’re in for? Not the weather, but in terms of footfall – are we going to see younger people at the shows?
Paula
A much younger crowd. Obviously COVID did that, didn’t it? Everyone went out and bought a motorhome because they couldn’t travel abroad. So it’s a much younger crowd, but we still need the old guys, our old faithfuls. But no, it is a younger crowd, and I think it’s more family orientated as well now.
Matt Sims
Well, let’s hope so for both our sakes. We won’t cross swords too often!
Paula
I don’t think we do!
Matt Sims
No, we don’t. It’s great to see you. And I need a cab mat for our Adria Twin, please! Thanks very much.
Matt Sims
Now, they say straight lines sell motorhomes. That’s certainly true here on the Somerset Motorhome Centre stand, as does cut grass. It’s something Tom here takes a huge pride in. How are you doing, Tom?
Tom
Yeah, very well, thank you.
Matt Sims
It’s lovely to see you. Now, you do quite a few of these shows local to you. And you’ve been doing them for how long?
Tom
We’ve been doing the shows for probably over 30 years now. We’ve learned how to do shows. And I think that’s the key, that there’s a different way of selling a show and a different way of presenting yourself.
Every dealer that’s at one of these shows has got the same opportunity to present themselves equal to everybody else. So we make sure that the vans are fully prepped and valeted before they come to the show. We actually have a chap come to the show the day before it starts to cut all the grass so it looks nice like a garden. And we think it makes a difference.
Matt Sims
It certainly does look superb. And you take huge pride in that. What’s the big benefit for you, then, of doing the shows? Because they are, as you say, a massive amount of work. Why do you do them?
Tom
We enjoy them, and a lot of dealers I look at, I don’t think they do enjoy doing the shows because it’s a bit of a headache to them. We enjoy it. We enjoy the camaraderie of three or four of the sales guys coming away for three or four days.
We enjoy seeing all the customers that we’ve dealt with over the years, and we’ve got customers all around the country, but a lot of them come to the shows. So you might see them once a year. But they’ll pop over and say hello. It also gets our name out there.
We hand millions of cards out and we get quite a bit of business after the show from people who visited. They look at our website, and they’ll contact us afterwards. So as a sales team, you have to enjoy doing them. If it’s a pain in the neck and it’s just a weekend away from home, then there’s no point in doing it. You have to have fun and enjoy it.
Matt Sims
And I’ve heard many dealers describe them as a hamster wheel, where once you get on that wheel of doing shows it’s really hard to get off, isn’t it?
Tom
Yeah, I think that’s correct. There have been times over the years where we thought, “Do we need to do the shows?” And I think honestly we probably don’t need to, but because we enjoy it, then we do.
Matt Sims
Which shows can people see Somerset Motorhome Centre at?
Tom
This one, obviously, Newbury. We do the Malvern show, which is in August. We do Shepton Mallet in September, and then we do a couple of local shows down towards Exeter. There are a couple of local shows down there.
Newbury’s as far as we go, Newbury and Malvern, mainly because I feel if we travel further away to do shows, we probably wouldn’t be able to give the backup to the customers once they bought the vehicle if there’s any issues because they’re too far away. But within a two-hour drive from our depot, then I feel that’s acceptable to feel confident we can look after the customers once they’ve purchased.
Matt Sims
You say you’ve been doing the shows for 30 years. That’s a long time. They’ve changed over the course of time, haven’t they? What’s been one of the biggest changes at the shows, do you think?
Tom
I would say that the shows have got much more professional. When we first started doing it, they really were just like a boot sale, and the dealers would turn up and they’d all be hungover from being out the night before sitting on deck chairs, trying to sell vans. It’s a lot more professional now.
Our team of guys, we do enjoy a night out. But we’re here at eight o’clock every morning. The show doesn’t open until 9:30. But eight o’clock in the morning we’re here just wiping down the vans, cleaning them, making sure there’s no damage to them from the visitors yesterday.
Matt Sims
One of your guys was here at seven o’clock in the morning on Saturday. I was walking past him coming back from the showers. And he said, “I’m on my own!”
Tom
Well, on the first day, like on Friday, if we sell… we sold eight on Friday. Then we make sure we get replacement vehicles coming up Saturday morning. So we have a team of drivers then that will leave the depot. I think they left at six o’clock Saturday morning, drove another load of vehicles up and then took the old ones back. Because there’s no point in having half your stock on site sold.
They’re quite expensive shows for us to do so you need to replace the stock. And I’m always amazed that lots of dealers don’t do that. You know, I walk around the show, and they might have three or four sold signs up on the Friday morning. And those vans are still there on Sunday afternoon, and I think, “That should have been replaced.”
Matt Sims
That’s because you’re old school. You’re a pro at this, Tom. But how do you think the footfall has changed? Has it changed over those 30 years?
Tom
Definitely. I think the footfall has got busier and busier. I think people come to a show to see a selection of vans. If you go to your local dealers, what they’ve got in stock that day is what you’re going to see.
But if they come to a show, you can really see a good selection of all makes, models and price ranges. And one thing we try and do when we come to a show is have something for everyone. So we’ve got vehicles starting at £25,995 Going up to £65,995. Something for everyone is important at the show.
Matt Sims
Tom, have a great rest of the weekend, won’t you? Thanks for taking a break from a busy weekend to speak to me!
Tom
No problem at all, mate. Nice to see you.
Audience Q&A
Keith Gooden
It’s the Motorhome Matt podcast. I’m Keith Gooden.
Matt Sims
And I’m Motorhome Matt.
Keith Gooden
It’s brought to you with www.thatleisureshop.com. It’s our questions and answers section, but first of all, time is almost up to get 25% off your motorhome or campervan insurance premium.
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Keith Gooden
Darren Goulding has been in touch with us.
Darren
Matt, I’ve just listened to your podcast, listening to the generalisation about the A frames being allowed or legal in France, Spain, etcetera. Then could you explain if it isn’t allowed whether the System Bleu, which is a French company obviously based in France, that actually make the A frames if you want to look them up online at www.systembleu.fr.
I find it strange because I use an Al-Ko system with exactly the same setup as what we have in the UK. I’ve seen a few of them driving around in France now. And if it’s totally illegal, how do they manage that? So I think you might need to do a little bit more looking up and have people check into that. Anyway, nice talking. Nice pod. Catch you later.
Keith Gooden
Well, Darren, down I’ve got one thing to say to you. We make machine guns in this country. But it’s still not legal to have one, is it?
Matt Sims
But the thing is, they’re not illegal.
Keith Gooden
That’s the whole point. That’s what we’re trying to get across. There’s no laws.
Matt Sims
We couldn’t find the law, Darren, that means they’re illegal to use, you know, a law that we’re breaking. Yeah, System Bleu do exist. I did look at the website. Thanks so much for pointing that out. And you’re right, they do look the same as the ones we use here in the UK.
They’re compliant here in the UK, it turns your car into a trailer, provided you comply with all the trailer regs and the brake regs. And therefore, under the Vienna Convention, we should be permitted to use them in France and Spain. So yeah, we still haven’t found the law that people refer to that means we’re breaking a law and therefore being illegal.
Keith Gooden
And we haven’t found it in any country in Europe so far. But of course, if you know different, please do get in touch with us. We’ll give those addresses out at the end of the podcast. Robin Taggart is in Ballymoney in Northern Ireland.
“Hi, Matt. I really enjoyed the recent excellent interview with SvTech on campervan weight limits. Many motorhome owners don’t even appear to be aware of the rules and issues around this topic, so thank you for helping to increase awareness about it. I’ve got a question about using alloy spacers to increase the wheel track width of a motorhome.”
Matt Sims
Robin goes on to say, “Chassis built motorhomes tend to have bodies that overhang the wheels by quite a margin, certainly more than Al-Ko chassis based vehicles, which often have a wider wheelbase at the rear than on the front.”
“To potentially increase wheel track width and vehicle stability, I’ve seen solid alloy wheel spacers up to 60 millimetres thick that are designed to be fitted between the hub and the wheel. Can you shed any light on A), the legality of fitting and using these on a UK registered motorhome and B), any practical or safety considerations around their use?”
Keith Gooden
And Robin goes on to say, “Our Sprinter based Hymer motorhome is plated to 3,880 kilogrammes with a rear axle limit of 2,430 kilogrammes. It is rear wheel drive with a full Mercedes Benz chassis. I fitted it with a Mercedes Benz genuine parts load rated alloy wheels. Many thanks,” says Robin Taggart.
Matt Sims
Thanks, Robin.
Keith Gooden
I feel like I should claim my pension now after that question.
Matt Sims
There’s a lot in there. So firstly, well done on fitting Mercedes approved wheels. That’s really important. This is something that people often overlook. They just put funky looking alloy wheels on a motorhome that are not weight rated. That is a disaster waiting to happen. So the observation you’ve made is quite right.
The Mercedes chassis has wheels that are the same width apart at the front and the back. On the Stellantis group chassis, typically a Fiat, for example, often a maxi chassis is used, which means the rear wheels are wider apart, thus giving more stability to the vehicle. Ford Transit motorhomes – often the wheels are the same width apart, front and back and the motorhome hangs right over it.
There’s a lot of Euromobils out there on a Ford Transit chassis, and they swing around. And when you go on a bend, you think it’s going to go over! Of course, it doesn’t. So can you fit wheel spacers onto them? Yes, you could. I’m not aware of any rule or law that you will be breaking by doing so.
But a word of warning – you are going to put excessive wear on your wheel bearings. And you would also need to use much longer wheel studs, which also will be suffering a far greater level of wear.
Now, you’re quite a heavy vehicle and your motorhome is always heavy. It’s not like a van where it’s going to be emptied and go down to one and a half tonnes. It’s always going to be around three and a half tonnes because it’s a motorhome. It never gets really emptied.
So those wheel nuts and wheel bearings are going to be under constant strain. So that’s a word of warning. I would definitely be talking to a Mercedes technician about this and getting some proper advice from somebody who really understands wheels, bearings and wheel nuts.
Ask Matt
Keith Gooden
Robin, thanks very much for the question. If people want to get in touch or ask a question, what should they do, Matt?
Matt Sims
Dead easy. Just head to mhmp.info/askmatt. We’d love it if you recorded your question. Hit the orange button. Or you can fill out the form and we’ll read it for you.
Keith Gooden
You can subscribe on YouTube.
Matt Sims
We would love it if you did that too. Hit the subscribe button and click the bell. And our YouTube channel is brought to you by our friends at www.arobasecreative.co.uk.
