Keith Gooden
In today’s episode of the Motorhome Matt podcast…
Matt Sims
We find out how campsites are adapting to new energy needs, and we find out if they’re really making money off their electricity.
Keith Gooden
And we answer your questions about compressors versus absorption fridges, anti-theft devices and satellite navigation. Welcome to the Motorhome Matt podcast. I’m Keith Gooden.
Matt Sims
And I’m Motorhome Matt.
Keith Gooden
Industry insights and expert advice from the world of motorhomes, caravans and campervans, all brought to you by www.thatleisureshop.com.
Matt Sims
Now, remember – please do follow on your favourite podcast app, or if you’re watching on YouTube, hit subscribe and the little bell. Our YouTube channel is sponsored by www.arobasecreative.co.uk.
15% off your insurance premium with Ripe
Matt Sims
This episode is sponsored by Ripe, the people who make motorhome and campervan insurance flexible, simple and hassle free.
Keith Gooden
If you’ve ever felt bogged down by insurance paperwork or endless phone calls, Ripe is a breath of fresh air. You can get a quote online in just minutes.
Matt Sims
Yep, it’s super quick. And the best part – you can build a policy that’s tailored to you. Only pay for the cover you actually need.
Keith Gooden
And if you’re one of those people who’s spent hours perfecting your van, they also cover DIY conversions, and that’s not something every insurer offers.
Matt Sims
Exactly. Plus their European cover is fantastic. Up to 90 days on a single trip or 180 days across the year, perfect for longer adventures.
Keith Gooden
And we’ve got a very special discount for you that gets you 15% off your insurance premium.
Matt Sims
So when you call, use the code MOTORHOMEMATT, or simply click the link in the description, and the discount is automatically applied.
How energy management on campsites is changing
Keith Gooden
Let’s delve straight into what we’re doing this week, shall we? Myth busting! Campsites apparently have been making money off charging for their electricity. “So what?” says I. Shouldn’t they? They’re in business, aren’t they?
Matt Sims
Well, that’s the myth we’re going to bust today. So about a year ago, just over a year ago, in fact, we went down to Cheddar to Petruth Paddocks. We were talking to the campsite owner there, Jules, about how they’d invested tens of thousands of pounds into electric charging points for campers.
And this is a technology we’re going to see a lot more of as we go through this year. And there’s been a lot going on in the background, and it’s landed with a mixed bag of views, I think, by people visiting campsites. Not all of it has been positive.
But we’re also going to talk to a company called Metpow, who inform why energy management is important and why we should care. I’m delighted to be joined by Harry King from MetPow. Why is energy management important for campsites, and why should campsite owners and indeedconsumers care?
Harry King
Well, I think to answer that question, we’ve really got to start with, “What is energy management?” For all intents purposes, energy management is the monitoring of the movement of electricity. Why should campsites and consumers care?
Well, it comes down to fairness. The energy moves in different ways for different consumers. Some people consume more, some people consume less, and energy prices change. They change on a day to day basis. They change on a regional basis.
And so why should both parties care? Well, it just comes down to fairness, and that is at the core of what MetPow does. Our goal with our sub metering systems is to help campsites and consumers access smarter, fairer and greener energy solutions.
Matt Sims
So how do MetPow actually do that, then?
Harry King
So MetPow is a software layer that sits in between the camper and the campsite. So when a camper arrives at a campsite, they would scan a QR code or enter a code on the top of the meter or connection box, which would take them to a portal where they can pay for the energy that they consume during their stay.
Matt Sims
Okay, so it’s like a pay as you go system and you’re the software provider for it.
Harry King
Absolutely. And so it gives campers and the campsite owner operators the ability to track the amount of energy that they are consuming and see the price of their energy throughout their stay.
Matt Sims
And do you make the hardware that goes with the software as well? The box we plug into?
Harry King
No. So we’ve, we’ve partnered with a brand that will be familiar to many campsites and site visitors called Rolec, who are the largest in the UK, and we provide all of their new units with our software.
Are campsites making money from reselling electricity?
Matt Sims
So I want to talk about some myths. Campsites have the opportunity to make big bucks out of reselling electricity to campers.
Harry King
I think it’s a bit of a myth that campsites make a fortune by reselling electricity, because the cost for a site to put in the cabling, to put in the hardware, to have somebody go around and maintain and check that hardware is operating, to have somebody in the back end making sure that people are connected successfully… you know, that all carries a cost.
And so whilst there are most certainly examples that you could probably go out and find of campsites maybe making a bit more than they probably should do for that resale of electricity, for the most part, what campsites will do is they will include a lot of what you’d call that opex cost, the operational expenditure for the delivery of that energy into the price that they charge.
And Ofgem have said very clearly that you can’t charge more than you pay for for the electricity. So if you buy the energy at 25 pence a kilowatt, you can only sell it at 25 pence a kilowatt, but campsites are able to recover some of their costs for the delivery and metering of that energy.
Matt Sims
So within the kilowatt price they charge?
Harry King
Yes, so they can add on a little bit extra to help them recover some of the investment costs that they’ve taken on.
Matt Sims
So this is a kind of new way of looking at a campsite, then. So the cost is 25 pence a kilowatt, which we know is going to vary more and more and more as time goes forward and as we go more green generating our electricity. It might go up to 60p a kilowatt as a cost of the campsite. But what you’re saying is the campsite could charge a pound a kilowatt to me for all the electricity I use to help cover their installation costs and administration costs.
Harry King
Well, I think there’s always going to be a limit to how much anyone can charge for energy, and it’s important that campsites remain compliant with what Ofgem is asking of them, but also they remain fair and transparent for their consumers. And ultimately, that’s what it comes down to. You know, is the price that the end consumer is paying fair and is the way that they are paying for it transparent?
Matt Sims
And this is what you help the consumer achieve, a sense of that fairness and transparency by awareness, so you can see how much you’re paying per kilowatt.
Harry King
Absolutely. It’s not just about what you’re paying per kilowatt, but it’s also how much you’re using. So in the way that a smart meter at home will help people understand how much energy they’re consuming when they’re boiling the kettle, it’s very much the same idea behind what Metpow does for people who are staying in motorhomes and caravans across the country, right?
It’s about giving them a much better understanding of the energy that they’re consuming. And you know, if they’ve got the heating on, they can see that price going up, and they can make more informed decisions about how they consume their energy.
Matt Sims
Got it. Okay, I understand. MRP means the maximum resale price. That’s what it stands for. So that is regulated. So it is a myth, then. So let’s bust some more myths – that campsites can make big bucks out of reselling electricity is not true. This is Ofgem regulated.
Harry King
Campsites cannot make big bucks out of reselling electricity, nor do I believe that campsites do make big bucks out of reselling electricity. However, you know, there is a very clear shift, not just in this world, but in all others that surround sub metering of any kind of utility, water, electricity, gas and beyond – even your phone bill, right?
It’s all about transparency and fairness. So I think we will sort of start to see a big shift away from paying £20 for a pitch without electricity and £30 for a pitch with electricity. The idea that the electricity is free – the electricity is not free.
There’s no such thing as free electricity. It always has a cost. It always carries a cost. And all that Ofgem is asking for, all that I think consumers are asking for and what MetPow delivers is creating transparency on the price of the energy and the amount that’s been consumed, and allowing consumers to then make informed decisions about whether they choose to power the hot tub on overnight – or maybe it’s worth turning that off.
Is pay as you go electric better?
Matt Sims
Another myth, then – daily charges, as you’ve just alluded to. So that £10 for a pitch fee or pay as you go, which is better?
Harry King
There’s been a bunch of studies recently that very clearly show that campers who are on a pay as you go based system will typically use a lot less energy than those where energy is included in the price, because the perception is that energy, as I’ve just sort of said, is free.
And you know, if we think about what is good and what is right and what is fair, ultimately, pay as you go is the better solution, because it allows campers to make much more informed decisions that are both better for them and their pockets.
Because if they’re not using energy, they don’t have to pay for it. But equally, if you’re not over consuming on your energy, you’re making smarter energy choices, which means you are doing a better job at protecting the environment and creating a more sustainable future.
Matt Sims
I’ve got it. And we did a recent example, or we discovered a recent example at Petruth Paddocks. It was called, “Pay as You Go Electricity on a Campsite.” And Jules, who owns the site, was explaining to us how he installed this pay as you go system onto his campsite at a fairly significant cost – £30,000 odd.
And he has seen a massive drop in the energy consumption by his guests who have been educated on how much they’re paying for the electricity by virtue of the fact of consumption awareness. And so they’re using less, and so his drain on the National Grid has been massively reduced, just by, as you say, people not choosing to leave the hot tub on or whatever the appliance is.
They’re choosing not to leave that heater on in the awning all day because it saves money, which they’re seeing drain out of their debit card because they’re paying per kilowatt. So I want to talk about digital payments. So having to download an app to pay for the electricity or paying on your phone – it’s all just a gimmick, isn’t it?
Harry King
If you rewind the clock a little bit and you think about how we used to pay for electricity at home, right? You’d often find people walking down to the local post office to buy some tokens and some credit.
Matt Sims
Loading the key.
Harry King
Exactly, exactly. And I would argue that actually, that was far more of a gimmick than having payments on your phone, because whether you’re paying on your phone or you’re paying by a card, really what it does is it actually gives consumers control.
And control when it comes to energy is only a good thing. It’s not just about the ability to pay using your mobile phone. It’s about connecting your payments to your consumption. And so if you have the ability to see on your mobile phone what energy you’ve been using and the price that that is costing you, you are then empowered with that knowledge to make better decisions about how you then choose to change your behaviour.
And so some people may see it as a gimmick, and there will always be lots of people who do want to stay on a cash based system, and there will always be lots of people who want to just pay £10 a day and use as much as they want.
But I think the reality is, if you look at any other way that people consume energy, whether it’s to charge their electric vehicles, at home, or the way businesses procure energy, it is changing. It is changing to make sure that any consumption is fair and transparent, and digital payments are just another way that you can increase that transparency and you can increase that fairness.
Matt Sims
Okay. It’s encouraging the consumer, then, to engage with technology and actually then helping them understand the benefit of this. So for us as motorhomers, the benefit’s going to be an awareness of how much energy we’re consuming, is what you’re saying.
So if we’re prepared to download the app and engage with it, there’s a learning curve that we go on, which gives us a greater awareness. And actually then we can make a spending decision, a choice as to how much money we’re spending based on the fact we turn the heating down or whatever – is that what you’re saying?
Harry King
Absolutely. And with MetPow, how we have the option for people to simply just pay for their energy and walk away,right? You don’t need to download an app. But if you want to have a greater level of visibility, if you want to have a better understanding of how your behaviour is impacting the level of energy that you are consuming, then there is a means to do that.
Matt Sims
I must admit, I love logging into the app and seeing my lithium battery, and seeing how that’s performing, I find that nerdily quite exciting.
Harry King
Me too! I don’t think that’s uncommon. I think there’s quite a number of people who would most certainly agree. There’s obviously lots who would say that, you know, we’re a bit weird, but I think we knew that already!
Matt Sims
We are a weird bunch. We’re also a bunch so that love to know the rules, and we like to play the game correctly. We want to abide by the rules, and we want to do things right. And that’s the vast, vast majority of this niche. You know, we want to play the game correctly. And if that means we need to be made more aware of our energy consumption, then I think we’re open to that as a community, I have to say.
Does energy awareness change behaviour?
Matt Sims
And I want to go on to another myth – that awareness doesn’t change behaviour. That’s just not true, is it?
Harry King
I would definitely say the data suggest otherwise. As I said earlier, there’s been a bunch of trials recently. And as we see with our own customers, there is a significant change in behaviour on both sides, so both the campsite side and the consumer side, that when they are aware of the energy that they are consuming, they will change their behaviour to reduce overall the amount of energy that they consume.
They’ll certainly be more mindful of when they consume and what they use to consume. Equally, from the site operator’s perspective, if they are aware of which pitches are used – I mean, you must have seen this in the past as well.
You know, typically sites would have somebody who would walk around. If somebody’s charging an EV out from a cable that’s coming out of a window, they get a good slap on the wrist, a big knock on the door. “You can’t be doing that!” You know, it’s a real problem.
Matt Sims
It’s really common.
Harry King
Whereas, you know, if they have a system in place where they can see how different sites are consuming energy and set limits on those different things, then it gives them a greater ability to control behaviours that they don’t want on the site or that aren’t fair for others.
Matt Sims
That’s the campsite policing it. But from a consumer point of view, if you want to charge your car out the window, there’s a whole load of risks associated with that.
Harry King
Which we won’t go into!
Matt Sims
No! Doing that on a hook up cable is not clever – not to mention the trip hazard. But if you wanted to charge your car on the pitch and you had permission to do it, you could monitor how much money that’s costing you in terms of electrical consumption. That’s what you’re saying, isn’t it?
Harry King
Yes, absolutely.
Matt Sims
Got it. Cool. Okay.
What does the future look like for campsites?
Matt Sims
What about the future, then, for campsites? You are obviously heavily invested as a business into this development. So you are promoting this to campsites, that they should employ your systems on their pitches. Do you think we’re going to see more and more campsites embrace this technology and go with it and start putting pay as you go electricity on campsites?
Harry King
There’s absolutely no doubt about that. I think if you look even just in the last few years, the number of sites that are becoming increasingly aware of that maximum resale price of energy that we spoke about earlier and also the need to reinvest in the technology and hardware that they have on site – and the growing popularity of EVs, as we’ve spoken to and other sort of high energy consumption customers that they are increasingly seeing… they are becoming painfully aware of just how exposed they are to the volatility, both in price and consumption.
Matt Sims
And what you’re saying is it’s going to get worse.
Harry King
I absolutely think it’s going to get worse. So I think when we look to the future, sites will have the intelligence to go, “There has got to be a better way of doing this, because I can’t keep charging a fortune for the energy and hope that I will not lose out and hope that consumers won’t find it unfair that I’m charging the same price for energy regardless of how much they consume.”
Consumers are getting smarter. Businesses are getting smarter too, and so absolutely in the future, I can see nearly every campsite in the UK moving to one form or another of metered energy. But, you know, I think the thing that I personally don’t know a lot about is how the actual motorhomes and caravans that people are choosing to stay in on sites are changing. What sort of technology is going into them?
Matt Sims
Interesting. So there’s a big move toward fossil fuel free motorhomes, let’s call it that. So all electric. And there’s a move toward induction hobs, electric heating and away from diesel heating as well. I think that’s going to drive more consumption on a campsite for electricity. I mean, there’s a move towards solar and lithium, which means we’re standalone.
So there’s a big trend for this kind of off grid kind of campervan, big knobbly tyres and lots of solar on the roof, big lithium battery pack, which arguably means we don’t need to pay the campsite anything other than for the pitch! But then, you know, sometimes the sun doesn’t shine, so you want to recharge all those batteries, and there’s a lot of batteries.
So I think there’s a big change coming where we are going to see less fossil fuel. But then, interestingly, Calor have launched their new Futuria gas, which is not fossil fuel. So I don’t think gas is going to disappear. It will go in the existing gas bottle. So I think gas systems are going to stay around because it’s going to be non fossil fuel.
But I think there’s a big change where people will be slightly more independent of campsites, which means this change is less of an impact for us as consumers with a vehicle like that, but when we want to hook up, I think we’re going to need to draw quite a lot of power.
Harry King
So it sounds like the common theme in your world and in our world is awareness.
Matt Sims
Yeah, definitely. Education and awareness.
Harry King
And I don’t believe there is ever a silver bullet for any problem that is related to energy or sustainability in any form. It is a holistic solution. It is a wider set of changes. And there is a sort of jigsaw of different components that people will pull together in order to meet both their needs and make good and smart decisions for the planet and their wallet.
And it sounds like in your industry and in ours, that all starts with awareness. And really, that is what MetPow aims to achieve. It is transparency on energy use, it is a fair energy price for campsites and consumers, but ultimately it is awareness for all on what you are using.
Matt Sims
So Harry, just tell us, then – for a campsite owner listening to this that’s thinking, “Okay, I need to explore this a bit further,” and for consumers intrigued by the technology that’s coming, you’re pioneering this at MetPow – where can people find out more about you?
Harry King
So you can head to www.metpow.com where we have a full list of the different solutions that we offer for sites, as well as a whole bunch of how tos and information for campers, so that when they arrive at sites with our systems installed on them, they very quickly are able to understand how it all works and what we’re all about.
Keith Gooden
That’s Harry King. He’s the head of growth at MetPow. So why should campsites and consumers care about this energy management, then?
Matt Sims
How much we’re using is really important. And I think one of the big learning curves we go on as consumers is when you’re paying for the electricity you’re consuming, you really do start to appreciate what you’re using! So it can make us all far more energy conscious and therefore have less impact on the environment.
Because I think there’s also been a perception that you pay the pitch fee and the electric hookup is free. Well, it’s not, is it? Someone, somewhere is paying for the electricity. And this changes that, and it means that, of course, you were paying for electricity in the pitch fee, but it means now if it’s being charged for separately, you are controlling how much you’re consuming, and therefore how much you’re paying.
Audience Q&A
Keith Gooden
It’s the Motorhome Matt podcast. I’m Keith Gooden.
Matt Sims
And I’m Motorhome Matt.
Keith Gooden
And it’s all brought to you with www.thatleisureshop.com. Let’s dive into our questions and answers. We do it every week. You ask the questions, and Motorhome Matt, he gives the answers. If he doesn’t know, he asks somebody who does! First of all. Paul Cotterill is in the Hondon Valley in Spain.
Paul Cotterill
It was lovely to meet you both at the NEC. My question is, which is the best fridge to go for for people that live on the continent? Is it a compressor or an absorption?
Keith Gooden
There you are then, Matt – so can you explain the difference between the two and which one is best suited for the sweltering conditions near Alicante?
Matt Sims
Well, that’s the point. Yeah, nice to meet you too, as well. Paul. If it’s sweltering, then definitely a compressor. They’re far more efficient and more capable in hot weather. An absorption fridge relies on heat being pushed up the back and evaporating it out of the top vent. It relies on convection.
And of course, if the air being drawn in is hot, as hot as the fridge, it doesn’t rise, and so the fridge isn’t very effective. So a compressor fridge is far more effective. But the catch is, you need to have a good 12 volt system.
So you need a good lithium setup, or solar panels. Great if you’re in Alicante where the sun is out, and that’s the catch with a compressor fridge! They will chew leisure batteries very quickly. That’s the catch, really. If it’s hot, go for a compressor, but make sure you’ve got a good battery set up.
Keith Gooden
Thanks very much, Paul. Clive Arthur is in Portishead near Bristol. “What is the best anti theft device to fit to a motorhome parked on your drive? I’m looking at wheel clamps, steering locks and immobilisers.”
Matt Sims
So we’ve talked about this a lot. I always say, the more visual, the better. But there’s some fundamentals you can do if you’re parking on your drive. Drive nose in. Why do we have this obsession with reversing onto our drive? Maybe it’s because, sure, it’s illegal to reverse out onto the carriageway.
You know, that’s a breach of Highway Code. But from a security point of view, driving nose in and putting your steering on a full lock before you put the steering lock on is a very good idea. It makes it almost impossible to tow the motorhome off the drive. And visible security – a wheel clamp, a security post, very effective. You know, it means a thief is going to look at it and go, “Nah, we’ll go to the next one down the road,” sadly, but it’s true.
And an immobiliser is great, but of course, that’s only effective once they’ve got in, and by that point, they’ve done damage. And a tracker is great for once it’s been stolen – you have a means of trying to get it back, and it probably tells you it’s moved without the key. So a word of warning, though.
With any physical security that you’re putting on it, if you tell your insurance company, they may require you to fit it on a campsite. So if you’re saying, “I’ve got a wheel clamp on my motorhome,” they probably are going to want you to fit it on a campsite, which seems bizarre. So check with your insurer.
Keith Gooden
Gary Wood’s in Dorset. He says, “We’re going to Europe this year. Can you recommend a reliable make of Sat Nav to use?”
Matt Sims
Yeah, I can. We’ve used the Avtex Garmin for years. The Tourer Three is the new one from Avtex. And guess what? You can get one at www.thatleisureshop.com. They are £349.99 and you can get 10% off with the code MOTORHOMEMATT.
Keith Gooden
Oh, lovely. So put the code MOTORHOMEMATT in at www.thatleisureshop.com. When you go to purchase it, at what stage do you put it in?
Matt Sims
At the checkout. Easy. The Avtex Garmin Tourer Three. They’re brilliant.
Keith Gooden
So that’s £35 off!
Matt Sims
Bargain.
Keith Gooden
Yeah, absolutely. 100%.
Ask Matt
Keith Gooden
Now, if people want to ask you a question, Matt, what should they do?
Matt Sims
Please do. If you’ve got a question, I guarantee thousands of others have too. So we’d love it if you asked it. Go to mhmp.info/askmatt. Fill in the form, or you can record it, and we’d love to hear your voice on the podcast. Please tell us where in the world you are. Hit the little orange button. You can hear it back before you press submit, and we’ll play it into the podcast for you.
Keith Gooden
Now, if you’re looking for trusted brands and services, then make sure you visit the Motorhome Matt Approved directory. It’s at mhmp.info/approved.
Matt Sims
And if you’re watching on YouTube, please click subscribe, click the little bell. And our YouTube channel is brought to us by the lovely folks at www.arobasecreative.co.uk.
