[00:00:00] Keith Gooden: In today’s episode of the Motorhome Matt podcast.
[00:00:03] Matt Sims: We are heading across the pond to discover some insights into the American motorhome market.
[00:00:08] Keith Gooden: In the news, Swift announces pre-tax losses and the Western show is almost upon us.
[00:00:14] Matt Sims: And we answer your questions on A-frames, battery issues and the Pathway 4G.
[00:00:26] Keith Gooden: Welcome to the Motorhome Matt podcast. I’m Keith Gooden.
[00:00:28] Matt Sims: And I’m Motorhome Matt.
[00:00:30] Keith Gooden: Industry insights and expert advice for the world of motorhomes, caravans and campervans. And it’s brought to you by www.thatleisureshop.com
and sponsored by Ripe.
[00:00:39] Matt Sims: Now remember, please do follow on your favourite podcast app and make sure you click subscribe on YouTube.
[00:00:46] Keith Gooden: In the news, Swift posts pre-tax losses as caravan sales show no sign, they say, of immediate return to previous demand. We’ve discussed this in the past, haven’t we, Matt? Caravans are going out of fashion big time.
[00:01:01] Matt Sims: Well, our first episode of 2025 was on the topic of do caravans even have a future? And Darren came on, guested. He’s a caravan dealer, in fact. Interestingly, Darren has just closed his caravan dealership and is kind of keeping caravan sales as a side hustle right now. Swift blamed their £4.8 million pre-tax loss, that’s a lot of money, for the year to the end of August ’24, on the end of the post-pandemic surge in sales and economic uncertainty, and customers putting off a purchase decision until after the general election. Really? Is that you? Are you listening to this thinking, let’s go and buy a caravan. Oh, hang on a minute, let’s wait for the general election. That sounds a little bit to me like some sort of PR.
[00:01:47] Keith Gooden: When things are going badly, people always look for reasons for it. Sometimes those reasons are completely outside their control. So sympathies to Swift. But it just goes to show, and something you say all the time, innovation, innovation. You’ve got to change your offering, haven’t you?
[00:02:02] Matt Sims: You have. It’s so important. And as an industry, we struggle with this. I don’t know why, but we just lack innovation. And those that are innovating will undoubtedly win the day. It’s all about innovation and after-sales excellent service. That is all we crave. And I’m sure listening to this as a consumer, you’d agree. And if you’re listening to this as a dealer, I’m sure you’d agree as well. And if you’re listening to this as a manufacturer, I’m sure you wouldn’t disagree. But how do you do it? And that’s the thing that costs money. And R&D and innovation does cost—
[00:02:35] Keith Gooden: Research and development.
[00:02:36] Matt Sims: Yeah. Sorry, yes. And it does cost money. It takes investment. And it is a very challenging landscape, as Swift are testament to at the moment.
[00:02:43] Keith Gooden: But if you put the right things in those caravans, people will flock to it. You’ve just got to engage their enthusiasm and their imagination.
[00:02:50] Matt Sims: Yes, absolutely. And there is still, I think, I still believe in caravans. Caravans are a great prospect. I would consider owning one. I know Motorhome Matt can see a future for a caravan. Huge amounts of space, the convenience of having the car, and if that’s your style of holiday, they’re brilliant. I’ve had several and they are a brilliant solution to a holiday where you’re not touring. So there is still a market for caravans and they are a cheaper alternative to a motorhome as well. So it’s just about, I think, the caravan market innovating and I hope we see a resurgence in that particular pastime.
[00:03:22] Keith Gooden: And we want to see Swift do well. But £4 million pre-tax losses, an awful big number. So, Matt, how are your sales then?
[00:03:29] Matt Sims: Well, we don’t sell caravans here, but interestingly, we are kind of bucking a trend. So the landscape we’re on at the minute, I’ve talked to lots of dealers who are massively overstocked. They’re saying sales are slow, people are taking a long time to make a purchase decision. Nobody has said to me, we’re waiting for the general election, though. We only sell 12 or 15 motorhomes at any one point here. It’s not a big selection. We went down to three. We nearly ran out and that was literally last week. We had a real run on sales. I think the quality of the product we sell is great. The price is on point and that’s a big debate. We’re now back up to eight or nine, which is great. Again, interest in those is really strong. Now, we are very particular about what we stock. We do a lot of brokerage here. So we would sell the motorhome for the customer and it remains theirs until it’s sold. So we do all the hard work of selling it and advertising it, but it remains owned by the previous keeper until it’s sold.
[00:04:23] Keith Gooden: And then you take your cut.
[00:04:24] Matt Sims: We operate on a fixed return to the seller so they know what they’re going to get. We discuss with them what we’re going to advertise it for, so that’s not a surprise. And we try and work on 8% to 10% typically. So James and the team in the sales operation are desperate for more stock to go on sale with us. So if you’ve got a motorhome that you’re thinking of selling, we have some key criteria which we’d love to discuss with you, but typically up to ten or so years old, very, very good condition, ideally lots of service history and something that would make a really compelling purchase for its new owner, then do get in touch with the guys at motorhomeholidaycompany.com.
[00:05:01] Keith Gooden: Yeah, and people might be hearing this and thinking, well, he just wants to sell the best of the best. But the plain fact of the matter is, that’s all the customer wants to buy. You can’t sell a pup. And if you want to sell a pup, you’ve got to sell it dirt, dirt cheap. But that’s not the market you’re in.
[00:05:14] Matt Sims: Absolutely not, no. And we keep well away from that market, I have to say. So you’re nearly new, we don’t sell new, but nearly new, pre-loved as we love to say, up to ten years old. So 2015 is kind of as old as we want to go. Just after the facelift happened on the Fiat Ducato cabs, and European, possibly British-built too, we’d consider both. But that’s kind of the sweet spot for us. So anything really from £35,000, £40,000 up to £100,000, that’s where we are retail. And yeah, quality of the end product is key. And I do have a personal input into what we’re selling, and we take that very seriously.
[00:05:52] Keith Gooden: Our product feature of the week. It’s a kitchen in a box. It’s a Lifestyle table, but much more. Matt explains.
[00:05:59] Matt Sims: It is so much more than a kitchen in a box. This is a really innovative kitchen box from Lifestyle. So this packs down into a tiny contained unit that you can carry and wheel around, and it unpacks really innovatively into this whole picnic set with built-in kitchen, built-in table. It’s got stools inside. It’s just incredible. And it’s all under £400. It’s an amazing product. You can find it at www.thatleisureshop.com
. Just search for kitchen box. When I saw it, I was intrigued. I’d love to know what you think, so let us know in the comments or get in touch with the team at That Leisure Shop. We have a limited stock. It’s a brand new product. We’d love your feedback.
[00:06:40] Keith Gooden: Our show feature of the week this week is the Western Motorhome and Campervan Show from the 15th to the 17th of August at the Three Counties Showground, that magnificent showground at the foot of the Malvern Hills. And I was at the gardening show there, the spring gardening festival earlier this year, and I’ve been there many times. It always takes your breath away if you’ve never been. It’s just the most magnificent setting, isn’t it?
[00:07:04] Matt Sims: It is beautiful. Did you go for a walk over the hills?
[00:07:07] Keith Gooden: I didn’t, no, no.
[00:07:08] Matt Sims: Bike ride then? Or motorbike ride?
[00:07:14] Keith Gooden: Taxi.
[00:07:15] Matt Sims: We took the car last time, last year, this show. And Jude and I went up onto the hills and went for a walk right along the top. It was amazing with a stunning view, frankly ruined by 3,000 motorhomes parked at the foot of the hills. But this is the biggest event of the season. 3,000 motorhomes and campervans expected to camp. Amazing value, as they all are. You get four nights’ camping for just £85. Three stages of country music, live music all weekend from Thursday through to Sunday night. The headliner is Luke Combs.
[00:07:49] Keith Gooden: He’s a big name. I’ve looked him up. Google’s your friend. He is a big name.
[00:07:52] Matt Sims: He’s a big country and western singer. And the amazing Shania Twain tribute act, who is brilliant.
[00:07:58] Keith Gooden: That’s a Shania Twain tribute act.
[00:08:00] Matt Sims: Yeah. Shania is not turning up.
[00:08:02] Keith Gooden: That’s true. Tanya Swain.
[00:08:04] Matt Sims: That don’t impress me much. Free line dancing tuition. Are you going to join in with that?
[00:08:09] Keith Gooden: I don’t see why not. Line dancing is not to smile. Okay. Watch people line dancing. Of course.
[00:08:16] Matt Sims: Okay.
[00:08:17] Keith Gooden: Smile.
[00:08:18] Matt Sims: Yeah. Okay, right. Well, that’s when I’ll be watching. 500 vehicles expected on site for sale. And there’s always amazing deals, discounts on the screen prices. Over 200 exhibitors, including That Leisure Shop, the team will be there. And the highlight for me is always the Advice Centre. 18 free talks across the weekend, a brilliant highlight of the show there. Free talks, go along and check those out as well. All for just £85 for the weekend, for four nights with music every night, or £7.50 for a day ticket. So if you just want to go for the day, you can. And use the code MOTORHOMEMATT and get 20% off your day ticket, so just £6. Absolute bargain. Fantastic value. So that’s the Western Motorhome and Campervan Show, the 15th to the 17th of August.
[00:09:02] Keith Gooden: mhmp.info/warners is where you need to be. mhmp.info/warners.
[00:09:10] Matt Sims: And I’m Motorhome Matt.
[00:09:12] Keith Gooden: It’s brought to you by www.thatleisureshop.com
and sponsored by Ripe. Now the main topic of this week’s podcast, we talk a lot here about the UK and European market, as you might expect, but what’s happening in the USA? Of course, I suppose they led the way in the old days with the motorhomes and Winnebagos and big RVs and such like. Winnebago is one of those names, isn’t it, like Jacuzzi and Hoover? It’s a brand name that you now associate with everything of a product of that style. That’s all motorhome. Oh, that’s nice, but it’s not. It’s a nice Hoover, it’s a vacuum cleaner. But anyway, that’s by the by. So what happens there happens here five years later, and we usually see it in the movies. So what’s been going on then?
[00:09:52] Matt Sims: Well, I was introduced to a chap called James Upham. And James is American. He used to be head of international sales for Winnebago, so sales of them outside of the USA. And he was responsible for sales here into the UK, which is how I got in touch with him. And he now has his own business selling American motorhomes. And I thought, James, you’re so well positioned to give us a view of the market there because they’re often seen as being slightly ahead of us in terms of trends and so on. And I wanted to find out what’s going on for him in the USA and therefore what we might be in store for. So I joined him on a video call and we had a brilliant conversation.
[00:10:31] James Upham: I actually started in the RV industry back in the early 2000s, and I was probably about, I know you think I was probably around 10 or 12 at the time, but it was a fun experience. It was for a manufacturer called Fleetwood. We’re all probably familiar with that. It’s now, of course, the REV Group. I just saw on the wire today they just sold off a portion of their business at Lance Campers, and so they’re constantly moving things around. But when I was with them, it was Fleetwood and they really dominated at that time in the early 2000s, about 30% of the market share. So it was a very big company. Got out of the industry, went back to school, got a couple degrees, started a few businesses in between. And in 2014, a friend of mine who I’d worked with back with Fleetwood had called me and said, hey James, would you ever be interested in working as a district sales manager for Winnebago? And I said, that’s probably the only company that I would consider working for. At the time, it was great vision, great trajectory. So I joined them and they gave me basically four states in my Southeast area. I’m in North Carolina. Grew that to about eight states. And then also was tasked with what I found to be probably the most fun part of my position there, was establishing a dealer network in the UK. So I was able to get some RVs over there, go and visit you. And I have talked clotted cream as one of my favourite experiences over there. And, you know, you guys get a bad rap. They say the food’s not good there. I thought the food was amazing. But, you know, I guess people spend time in Paris or something and they compare. But yeah. So I got to go and work with a couple dealers there. Since then, 2020 rolls around. There’s this thing called Covid. All manufacturers shut down, they consolidate, they laid off and furloughed about a hundred of us. My position was never backfilled. I was one of the hundred. What I thought was a terrible thing at the time, or was unsure, turned out to be a blessing from above, because it was that time where I had started my business as an RV broker. And the way that my niche is, you know, Matt, is a little different than what most brokers do out here, at least in the States. So it’s been a fun ride these last five years.
[00:12:47] Matt Sims: And what’s been happening then to prices for you and supply?
[00:12:52] James Upham: Since I already mentioned 2020, I’ll just kind of tell you what the trajectory. Right. So what happened in 2020? Everything stopped, as we know. I was furloughed, wasn’t called back, and I had dealers who I had established relationships with for about seven years or so, friends of mine, calling me, saying, James, would you help me find a customer? There’s no one’s buying anything. Everything has stopped. And I said, well, let me see what I can do. And so I worked that angle. About six, eight months later, I had the same dealer friends calling me saying, I know you’re not with Winnebago anymore, but I know you know people. Go get me some motorhomes because I don’t have any inventory. So in the process, I saw this huge swing and I thought, well, maybe I can monetise this, provide a valuable service. My business was very sensitive to price changes and these fluctuations in supply, because the supply chain disruption, of course, had messed up everything. And, you know, being in the industry, and I’m sure it’s very similar there, there’s these huge capitulation, these swings where dealers will say, hey, the going is good now, it’s never going to change, let’s keep ordering. And then all of a sudden, everything stops, like it’s been here pretty much for the last two years. We’ve seen, not stop, we’ve seen a tremendous slowdown. And then now we’re kind of in this position, fast forward 2025, where the market is particularly soft, a little unusual even in the past couple years. At summertime, we typically see a surge in buying, but we just haven’t been seeing that yet.
[00:14:22] Matt Sims: That’s pretty similar here with dealers being overstocked. For the consumer, that means lots of choice and brand new motorhomes, as we call them, but heavily discounted on new, which is putting pressure on used prices. Are you suffering the same kind of conditions there?
[00:14:40] James Upham: Yeah. So I’m fortunate enough to, because my business is more of a niche in the sense that I’m connecting buyers and sellers. I’m finding buyers for my sellers, and then of course I’m representing sellers. So depending on what side of the equation they’re on. But for me, I’ve been able to work with my dealer network, which is about a couple dozen dealers who we work together. And that pressure is tremendous right now because here what we do is, we look at the target as what we would call a birthday. And what I mean by that is, when we have a brand new, even if it’s a previous model year, but a new untitled motorhome and that has now celebrated its birthday for being one year on the dealer’s lot, that’s where we run into problems. They specifically have been running into a tremendous amount of pressure where the manufacturers then will come in and say, sure, we’ll be able to help you, but you’re going to have to buy more. And it’s this ongoing cycle. The finance companies come down hard and say there’s curtailments. There’s also interest, sometimes believe it or not, the interest rate goes up because even though it has not been purchased, what ends up happening is they consider it a used unit. It’s their way of kind of screwing the dealer, if you will. I can say that. They’ve taken a little bit more money. So there’s all this pressure. Then on top of that, where the buyers, there’s a forecast of young buyers and many more buyers entering into this space, Matt, as you know. But where are they? And so that’s kind of what’s happening now.
[00:16:09] Matt Sims: That’s interesting, you say about a new audience, a new kind of breed of consumer coming into the market. We see the same in the UK and across Europe, maybe a younger demographic. And the hashtag vanlife has become huge on Instagram. Are you seeing a younger demographic in the US?
[00:16:27] James Upham: Yeah, absolutely. You know, the thing is, we’ve seen in the van market, we’ve seen over the last maybe really ten years now, we’ve seen a nice upward trend. And some years better than others. Some manufacturers, I’ve even mentioned a couple here, have really focused on that segment because of all of the new buyers. Most people here in the States, bigger is better, right? But a lot of times what we do is we find that there’s HOAs, these various homeowners associations, that will not allow RVs of any type except for vans. So a lot of buyers, particularly young buyers who want to hit the road, maybe with a couple kids or not, take it on the road, be able to park it in their apartment complex or their home without having any kind of issues there. So that’s all added to that trend.
[00:17:15] Matt Sims: Interesting. Now you’ve also, alongside all this, been under real pressure as a marketplace from US government with clampdowns on emissions. We have these ULEZ zones here in the UK, where unless you’re ultra low emission, you can’t go into the city or the town without paying sometimes quite high rates per day. But just talk to us a bit about what’s been going on in California, because that had a massive impact on the market there.
[00:17:44] James Upham: Yeah, it’s interesting you say that because, as you know Matt, I just got back from London a couple of days ago and we love London. I already mentioned my favourites there. But I didn’t see too many RVs at all. I know in London itself you probably aren’t even allowed. I don’t know. But I’m constantly looking. And that struck me as odd because here, every major city you’re going to see some type of RV. There was a statistic a few years ago, I think it was 1 in 12 Americans have some sort of recreational vehicle. You would throw in boats for that, you’d throw in motorhomes, travel trailers. Right? But it was 1 in 12. I haven’t looked at it recently. So even as I’m having this Zoom right now and I’m looking out the window, I won’t be surprised if I don’t see an RV. So when I went to London and some of the outer parts near London, I was very surprised by that. So that makes sense. What the government here has done, particularly in some of the states like California, they’ve made it increasingly difficult for dealers to sell RVs because of all the emissions constraints and everything else they put upon it.
[00:18:43] James Upham: More recently, we’ve had some legislation that’s now getting a lot of pushback. I’m in North Carolina, directly across, as far as you can get away from California, but as far as you can go, and I still work with dealers there. A lot of my clients, believe it or not, come from the West Coast, which is interesting because of the pricing differences and disparity between the East Coast and the West Coast. That’s another fun subject. But anyway, they’ve had these CARB emissions issues, restraints. Everything has been put on hold for some dealers. Some manufacturers have had Class A motorhomes sitting ready to go but unable to ship. So that’s definitely caused a problem. I’ve seen some relief there lately. There’s been something, I haven’t paid real close attention to it, but there’s been stages where now there has been some reconciliation there. But it’s definitely putting a damper on all this stuff, for sure. Yeah.
[00:19:36] Matt Sims: I mean, basically the government ruling meant that RVs couldn’t be built. They couldn’t be registered in that state. Motorhome RVing is hugely popular in California, isn’t it? And the government have had also other impacts on the whole of your country with the tariffs that have been introduced. And we’ve touched on it here and what effect it might have for us in the UK. Probably a very limited amount. But what effect has it had on your business in the US?
[00:20:08] James Upham: Yeah. So you guys have heard about all these tariffs. I think on the larger picture, it’s a looming potential effect that has scared people. A lot of dealers have used this to their advantage. Hey, go buy this now because tariffs are coming. There was a time when Winnebago, when I started with them in 2014, and I would go to a dealer’s lot and I would provide training, and I could walk into pretty much any motorhome and say, look around you. A good 40% to 50% of this RV was made from raw materials in-house. So all your aluminium extrusion, all your woodwork, of course the chassis not so much, but everything else, fibreglass, all of it was pretty much made in-house. And that gave us, at the time, a real advantage, quality control and otherwise. That started to change towards the end of my tenure there. And of course, everyone else had already been doing that by getting supply from various places overseas. It was just so much cheaper, right? So there were still operations at some of these locations, but it wasn’t for those motorhomes, it was for other sources of revenue. So what we found out is that during Covid and afterwards, there’s been this tremendous pressure on getting those supplies, no longer made as much in-house. Now we have this tariff problem. And so now everything else has become more expensive. Like I said, some dealers are taking advantage of that, charging fees that really don’t even exist right now, but it’s more so as to what is going to be made down the road where we might see that impact.
[00:21:42] Matt Sims: Right. And I understand some dealers are claiming that, you know, they’re putting the prices up now because saying tariffs have already been applied. Is that right?
[00:21:52] James Upham: I tell you, the stuff they get away with sometimes, it just blows my mind. You know, that’s another one. We could have some fun with that. But it’s amazing, some of the stuff. And the thing is, there’s a lot of really good—you know this because you go to so many shows—the RVers out there, the lifestyle, the people that have made this part of their life, they’re some of the greatest people on the planet. They will give you literally the shirt off their back if they want. They are, no matter if you’re out of something and you’re at a park, you don’t have to go down to Walmart. Someone will come over. Three people will line up and help you. These are good, trusting people. In our case, we find that a lot of people get, except for this newer segment we talked about, but it’s more the retirees, as we call it. So when you’re hitting that 62 to 65, a lot of good, trusting people will sell their assets to go get an RV and travel the country. So they go into this buying experience being deceived, and that ends up costing you a tremendous amount of money later on when you’re trying to either trade that in or sell it on your own or sell it back to the dealer. When people call me and they say, I’m interested in having you help me to market and sell my RV, and we go through the process, my response is always the same. It’s like, you’ve got to remember one thing, that when an RV salesperson’s lips are moving, for the most part they’re probably lying. And it’s a joke, but it’s kind of true. You have to be careful, you know, because sometimes stuff like this is very unscrupulous. We see this a lot. So yeah, that just kind of burns me up when I hear that.
[00:23:19] Matt Sims: That’s a shame. That’s very saddening to hear. I mean, dealers here get a bad rep too. Sometimes justified. But there are a lot of good guys in the business, aren’t they?
[00:23:29] James Upham: Yeah, there are. And you know what? I joke and have fun with that. But most of the time when we’re dealing with somebody who’s a little upset, it’s because they’ve gone back to their dealer and the dealer doesn’t need any inventory. So they’ve given them the ACV, the actual cash value, which is below the trade end because they’re just trying to steal it. That’s where I say, were you sitting down? Yeah, I was glad I was sitting down because I would have fallen over. Well, we can try to sell this for you retail at a reasonable price. So it’s actually good for my business. So I’m not complaining. But no, I have some really good dealer friends that I would absolutely say are just completely very honest and full of integrity. So yeah, they’re out there.
[00:24:09] Matt Sims: They are. And we have issues here too with build quality, with consumers having frankly well below an acceptable experience of the end product. And for whatever reason, manufacturers often have cut corners and the end product is just not up to par. It’s just not good enough. Have you had a similar experience over there with manufacturers doing the same?
[00:24:34] James Upham: Yeah. Some manufacturers, there are others manufacturers that have just been consistent. You know, I look at some of these companies and I can. Here’s how I tell you. Whenever I’m driving down I-95 or one of our highways, the oldest RVs, those are the ones I’m looking for. So you’ve got these really good quality RVs that are still on the road. You’ve got companies like Newmar as an example. They’re building every 12 inches, there’s a stud in their wall. Anytime there’s an opening, there’s aluminium of some sort. It’s just very rigid. Their interlocking system, they’ve been doing this for decades and they’re still on the road. That’s a great example. So haven’t seen much issues there. In some other companies as well, have seen a tremendous amount of issues. Really, not just recently. It’s been an ongoing problem with some of the other bigger companies, but especially now because they’re trying to force it out the door, shove it down their dealers’ throats a lot of times because, again, they’re not invoicing until it goes over the curb. So once that risk is transferred over to the dealer, then that’s where their emphasis is. They just got to, of course, they have a responsibility to perform to the shareholders in most cases. So these are publicly traded companies. It’s all about the dollar. And that is where you see a lot of the compromise in some of these really large guys. Yeah.
[00:25:50] Matt Sims: Yeah. And what about parts supply? I’ve got parts here that I’ve ordered over a year ago. We’re still waiting for them with a customer waiting for the part. Is that an issue for you in the USA?
[00:26:03] James Upham: Yeah, it’s become more of an issue. It’s not really an issue that I would say has become a major problem yet for some dealers. But yes, it’s becoming harder and harder for sure.
[00:26:14] Matt Sims: Yeah. And that’s a real challenge, isn’t it, for the consumer and when they are these off the road?
[00:26:19] James Upham: Yeah, it’s not their fault. And what are they going to do? And the other thing is, sometimes in the past I’ve seen where some of those manufacturers, not the good guys, some of the guys that are rushing it out, will ship an RV that’s not complete because of the part not being there, and send it directly to the service department at the dealership so that they can install it to clear up their line, of course, to invoice partially maybe in this case, and then have the dealer fix it and complete it. The dealer likes that because they get paid well to do it, but then it just slows down the process and you don’t have all of the manufacturing quality control systems as well. So that’s happened too. It’s a risk.
[00:26:54] Matt Sims: It is. Now, it’s often said that what happens in the USA, five years later happens in the UK. So it sounds like you’re in the same pickle we are really?
[00:27:06] James Upham: Yeah.
[00:27:07] Matt Sims: What is your prediction for the RV market over the next five years? Growth speeding up, slowing down, prices staying where they are now?
[00:27:17] James Upham: Yeah. I saw an article on the wire here just yesterday where it talked about there’s been an improvement. I mean, when it came to the used market, we’ve seen a little bit of an uptick in pricing. Very marginal. They, of course, blow it—oh it’s great, it’s great. But that’s nice because what we were seeing is just this price disparity between new RVs that were just going up and up and up and up and up, and used values going down and down and down and down. So you have this massive gap in between. Now we’re starting to see new pricing kind of level out, not seeing the price increases as fast as we did before, and we’re seeing some of that used pricing go up a little bit. That’s nice. Now how it relates to registrations and sales, everything here in the States, there’s a couple really good companies out there that monitor the registrations across the state. So when an RV is registered, except for a few states out there, it’s reported to the DMV, as we call it here. I’m not sure how they do it there, but then you’re able to pull that data, receive that data and basically, year over year, determine what the course is for us. What we’re seeing is this market, I would say in one word, is soft. And we’ve seen a decline consistently year over year in retail registrations. Now get this, Matt though. But an increase in wholesale shipments. So now we’ve seen less buyers and more RVs, which has resulted in a tremendous amount of inventory, both used and now new. So all this pressure is happening. So my answer to that, just to give a little background, is to say this. We’re going to probably continue to see this downward decline up through, I would say maybe even this time next year would be my prediction. As we start to see some of that levelling out, we start to see more discipline on the dealer side so that the dealers are not just looking right in front of them to salvage a sale by having basically a push-pull situation where the manufacturer is helping them now to buy more later, where things start to level out. Common sense begins to come back into the picture where out of that whole crazy swings back and forth with Covid. And I think what I’m seeing is out there, that’s going to be at least a year from now.
[00:29:28] Matt Sims: Right. Okay. And then longer term, over the next five years, where do you see the market going?
[00:29:32] James Upham: Yeah, I think there’s tremendous opportunity over the next five years. I think these new buyers are really going to enjoy it because now that. So here’s what happens for us. For years we would see the manufacturers dictate what they felt that the customer needed or wanted. And so you’d see a lot of manufacturers that would offer something, but the customer wouldn’t want it. Then you have some of the really smart manufacturers, some of the smaller ones, that were actually giving what the customer was asking for, right? So technology, I mean Bluetooth has been around for a while, but you know, that’s an example. Just started adding all this different stuff that was saying this is what the new buyer is used to. You know, I get my kids, I have three kids, and my youngest now can pull out my phone and like, no matter what to do, and I’m pretty tech savvy. I mean, how did you learn that? How did you find that out? And I think as that generation, older than them, continues to look into this opportunity as an RV, let’s take our business on the road, let’s take our family on the road, then you’re going to see, in my opinion, a tremendous opportunity for everyone to do very well in this business. So I’d say we’re at least probably three years from that to two and a half, three years from that before we start to see a real push.
[00:30:42] Matt Sims: I mean, you say bigger is better in the US, but here in the UK, smaller is often better. Our roads are so much smaller than yours. Are you seeing a trend toward a smaller sort of Mercedes Sprinter style van conversion, would you call? I think you’d call that a C-Class. Is that right?
[00:31:00] James Upham: B-Class or B+? You know, we’ve had different designations for it. But yeah, say A, B+ or C. You would use either a Sprinter in the van or use the Sprinter chassis, the long bed or the short bed, four-wheel-drive options, etc. And by the way, there’s always hedges in England too. I noticed there’s just these wall-to-wall hedges, so not only is it smaller roads, you’ve got to be careful you don’t scrape your paint. Yes, we are definitely seeing a trend to try to get more buyers comfortable because as much as I’m a big motorhome diesel guy, like when I—when I was so blessed, so blessed. The best part of my gig when I was selling RVs with Winnebago, back when they used to make diesels, I would sell mine in the beginning of the quarter so that I could use it as a demo and drive it around and sell more of it. So I got to experience all of them from the smallest all the way to the biggest. I learned very quickly, I love that panoramic windshield. I love my vacation started the moment I got behind the wheel, so I’m a big heavy metal kind of guy. But more and more people don’t feel comfortable with that. My wife, she’s all of about five foot two, she’s just intimidated. And I tell people, give yourself a couple of weeks and you’ll be okay. Don’t let this bother you. But now we’re seeing more and more people would rather get behind that van style. The C’s and the B’s do that. So yes, we have to then shorten the chassis, and more and more people are just feeling comfortable doing that. But still, Super C’s now are becoming very popular again. So these are these large Freightliner, you know, that have more of a truck style on the front. Those are becoming, it’s kind of a merging of the two, the Class A bus and the truck. So we’re seeing more of those become popular.
[00:32:38] Matt Sims: And what do you think the impact of China is going to be on the US, avoiding tariffs and that topic? We’re starting to see Chinese vans appearing here in the UK. Do you think you’ll ever see Chinese vehicles in the US?
[00:32:54] James Upham: Yes. I just don’t think, my opinion is, I don’t think it’s going to be as much of a problem because of the RV consumer. The RV consumer, I think they recognise that this isn’t just a car rental. This isn’t just a quick, this is part of an adoption of a lifestyle. And I think that when people begin to get out there, do their research, their due diligence, they understand China does not have a reputation of having good quality materials. And I think that’s going to cause a problem unless they come in and just offer significantly lower than anything else, and people who are having difficulty affording the nicer RVs would jump into that. But would I ever bet against China in stuff like this? Probably not. I mean, they just know how to get into markets and sell cheaper than most other countries. So it could be an issue. But I don’t think anytime soon.
[00:33:45] Matt Sims: Maybe Donald Trump will see to it that it’s not an issue.
[00:33:50] James Upham: Hold on, you know, to be continued. We’ll see, yeah.
[00:33:53] Matt Sims: A different story tomorrow.
[00:33:55] James Upham: What do I got today?
[00:33:56] Matt Sims: Yeah, exactly. Well, we try not to do politics here. But listen, James, thank you so much for your insight. I’d love to keep in touch. There’s so much we could talk about. There’s so much that goes on for you in your market. Just how people use RVs in the US is fascinating to me. And maybe next time we can talk about boondocking and RV parks and how the consumer is using it and how that has changed over the last ten years, because I know it has here, and I’m sure it has for you too.
[00:34:26] James Upham: Oh, particularly RV parks. I mean, we’re seeing lenders now that have verticals that are only specifically for RV parks. So it’s become a profitable venture for just about everybody involved. So that’s becoming a lot more. Yeah, that’d be fun to talk about. There’s a whole other, there’s a lot for us to keep in touch about.
[00:34:45] Matt Sims: So let’s do that.
[00:34:46] Keith Gooden: That’s James Upham, the president at My RV Broker. So Matt, an insight into the market in the US. It doesn’t seem to be vastly different from over here.
[00:34:58] Matt Sims: It’s not. And actually, it seems to be very, very similar to where we are. Uncannily so. We could have talked for hours and off camera we were having a long conversation about so many other facets of the market and the challenges he’s facing. So James and I will be continuing the conversation. We’re going to keep in touch, and I’m sure we’ll do another episode in the future. Look forward to it.
[00:35:19] Keith Gooden: Fantastic. So Matt, insurance, it’s one of those things people get ever so confused about, isn’t it?
[00:35:24] Matt Sims: It is. Yeah, you’re right, but it doesn’t have to be. We chose to work with Ripe Insurance because they make it simple. There’s no one-size-fits-all. You just tailor your cover for what you actually need, so you’re not paying for stuff you’ll never use.
[00:35:37] Keith Gooden: And what about age limits? Because that one catches a lot of people out.
[00:35:40] Matt Sims: It does, but Ripe will cover drivers from 25 up to 80 years old, which is great because most other insurers cut off at 70. The only thing is, with an A-class motorhome, you’ve got to be over 30. But let’s be honest, not many 25-year-olds are buying A-class motorhomes.
[00:35:57] Keith Gooden: That’s very true. And van conversions, lots of people are doing those.
[00:36:01] Matt Sims: Yeah, they cover conversions too. I spoke to Mel from Ripe at the recent NEC show and she said, just make sure your electrics and heating are done professionally. And unlike some insurers who want to know about every tiny modification, Ripe only need to know if it affects performance. So things like braking or suspension. Plus, if you’re commuting in your campervan, they’ll cover that too.
[00:36:24] Keith Gooden: And you’ve mentioned before, especially when you mystery-shop them, that they’re a UK-based organisation.
[00:36:30] Matt Sims: Yeah, they are. They’re up in Manchester, a small team who all sit together. So when you ring up, you’re actually talking to someone who knows their stuff inside out.
[00:36:39] Keith Gooden: Great. And there’s a discount to be had as well, isn’t there?
[00:36:42] Matt Sims: There is, yeah. Get an exclusive 15% off your premium, which will apply automatically if you click the link in the episode description. It’s worth checking to see just how much you could save.
[00:36:53] Keith Gooden: It’s the Motorhome Matt podcast. I’m Keith Gooden.
[00:36:56] Matt Sims: And I’m Motorhome Matt.
[00:36:57] Keith Gooden: It’s brought to you by www.thatleisureshop.com
and sponsored by Ripe. Let’s go into our Q&A. We do it every week. Thanks for all your questions. You ask them, Matt answers them. He’s the expert and if he doesn’t know, he’ll find somebody who can answer them. First of all, Mark Saunder got in touch.
[00:37:13] Speaker 5: I don’t think it’s true to say that A-frames weren’t invented before 1968. The Army had been using them for years to tow Jeeps.
[00:37:21] Keith Gooden: So short and sweet from Mark Saunder. First of all, explain what is an A-frame then?
[00:37:25] Matt Sims: So this is something you fit to the front of a car, meaning you can tow it on the back of another vehicle. So typically a motorhome. And it treats the car as a trailer here in the UK.
[00:37:35] Keith Gooden: Right, I’m with you. So it’s like a trailer, but it’s just the frame of a trailer.
[00:37:40] Matt Sims: That’s right, yeah. It’s the A-frame, literally that.
[00:37:42] Keith Gooden: Okay, so he’s asking, can you tow a car with an A-frame in mainland Europe? Well, we know you can do it here, don’t we?
[00:37:48] Matt Sims: He’s making a point about when A-frames were created. They’re legally accepted here. And we did a whole episode with a chap called Lee Bryant from LNB Towbars. Sadly, LNB are no longer with us. They didn’t survive this economic storm we’re in. But go and check it out because we unpack with Lee the legality and the rules of towing a car on the continent, which is always a big debate. Lots of pub talk. And we try to unpack the facts of it. So go and check that out.
[00:38:16] Keith Gooden: Nice one. Cheers, Mark. Thanks for the short question. Brian’s in Milton Keynes.
[00:38:21] Brian: Have a Chausson Ford Transit one, 7072 plate. I’m wondering about the battery. And recently what’s been happening is I went to start the van and it’s just been ticking over. And so I’ve had to put a battery booster on it. At the same time, when I do get it started, it shows one mile left on my fuel. And although it shows a quarter tank, which is one mile an hour, one mile left on my fuel consumption. I’m just wondering, is that possibly to do with that?
[00:38:54] Keith Gooden: Cheers, Brian. So what’s he referring to there?
[00:38:57] Matt Sims: So I’m guessing he refers to the ticking, which is the tick tick tick tick when you try and start the van. A sure sign you’ve got a flat starter battery. Very annoying. You need to be really careful when that happens because as the vehicle starts, if it’s Fiat Ducato, it can take out the airbag module. I know, it’s done it to me many times. In fact, I’ve just had one refitted on our own van. I let the starter battery go flat. The Ford Transit will go flat for a load of reasons. We did unpack an issue where the headlights come on of their own accord due to water ingress into an electrical connector. It was called the Ford Transit issue. And with Jordan, a colleague of mine at the time, we unpack how you find the problem and how you fix it. I suspect, Brian, your predicted miles left is only saying one because you haven’t got a lot of fuel left in the van. And if you’re not driving it, it doesn’t know. So you’re only ticking over. So it’s saying, well, if we keep on like this, we’re only going to make a mile. So if you drive it, and driving it is the best way to recharge it. For every start, you really need to drive the vehicle 10 or 20 minutes to put the charge back into the starter battery. So bear that in mind and put it on a trickle charge. Take it for a run and I’m sure the miles remaining will work itself out. But my advice is, if you’re storing it for any length of time, and especially in winter, store it with a full tank of diesel. It avoids condensation forming in the top of the tank. Always a top tip.
[00:40:21] Keith Gooden: Laurie from Kent. Hi Matt, I’m interested in the Pathway 4G router for sale at www.thatleisureshop.com
and would like to know if it works in Europe. I see it plugs into the cigarette lighter. It’s a 12-volt accessory, you always say outlet. It’s not a cigarette lighter. But what about when you are on a campsite in the EU? Can I confirm you can use any data SIM card in it and keep swapping SIMs depending which provider has best coverage. Thank you, says Laurie.
[00:40:50] Matt Sims: Yeah, so it will run 12 volt from the 12-volt accessory, as you say, a cigarette lighter, and it will also run 240 volt. It will run 110 volt as well. So if you’re on the campsite in the EU, they’re running at around 200V. So it’ll work perfectly from your three-pin socket in your van. And yes, you can put any SIM in it in Europe and the UK. You may though, when you go to Europe, have to change something called the APN settings. And the team have spent hours creating a really simple and easy-to-understand instruction guidebook on how to do that on the Belmont Leisure website. There’s loads of information on how to do that, and there is a phone number and you can schedule a call with one of the team who will help you set it up if you are stuck. So just go to Belmont. And you can buy one at www.thatleisureshop.com.
[00:41:37] Keith Gooden: Cheers, Laurie. If people want to get in touch then, Matt, what should they do?
[00:41:40] Matt Sims: We’d love it if you did. Just fill out the form or record your question at mhmp.info/askmatt.
[00:41:47] Keith Gooden: And if you’re looking for trusted brands and services, then make sure that you visit the Motorhome Matt Approved directory. It’s at mhmp.info/approved.
[00:41:56] Matt Sims: And we’d love it if you left us a review. Would you help us and do that for us? You can do that at [unclear URL from transcript].
[00:42:03] Keith Gooden: And follow us on your favourite podcast app and also subscribe on YouTube please. Thanks for listening to the Motorhome Matt podcast. Remember to check back here for more episodes full of hints and tips and helpful advice. We’ll see you soon for another Motorhome Matt podcast brought to you with www.thatleisureshop.com.
