Keith Gooden
In today’s episode of the Motorhome Matt podcast…
Matt Sims
Motorhome finance is back in court with some big changes for the industry.
Keith Gooden
We’ve got some Christmas gift Ideas for you, and another Alan Rogers campsite of the month.
Matt Sims
And we answer your questions on trackers, rear view cameras and buying a motorhome without finance.
Keith Gooden
Welcome to the Motorhome Matt podcast. I’m Keith Gooden.
Matt Sims
And I’m Motorhome Matt.
Keith Gooden
Industry insights and expert advice for the world of motorhomes, caravans and campervans – and it’s brought to you by www.thatleisureshop.com.
Matt Sims
We always ask you, but remember to please follow on your favourite podcast app and make sure you subscribe on YouTube – sponsored by www.arobasecreative.co.uk.
Product of the week
Keith Gooden
In this episode, we’re bringing you some Christmas gift ideas all the way up to Christmas. Ho, ho, ho, mince pies, mulled wine, and the relatives are coming around.
Matt Sims
Oh, no.
Keith Gooden
Oh, Matt’s got his sack out.
Matt Sims
Oh deary me. Just be glad you’re not watching on YouTube, if you’re listening. Here we go. Look, it’s your favorite thing, tyre and rubber dressing.
Keith Gooden
Tyre and rubber dress?
Matt Sims
Dressing! I’ve dropped one. It’s all going wrong. Luxury body shampoo made a bid for freedom. So this is a range of newmotorhome, caravan and campervan specific products for cleaning and caring for your pride and joy.
We’ve spent months researching this stuff. We’ve had some professional valetors testing it for us, and they love it, I have to say. We’ve all been using it ourselves as well. The first one we launched, the black streak remover, has been really popular, spray it on, leave it a minute or two, and then give it a rub. If the black streaks are really ingrained, you may have to do it twice.
It’s phenomenal. It’s really clever. And it’s all environmentally friendly stuff as well. All very, very effective. Loads of research has gone into it, and in the bottom, I found a pine cone and last year’s stuffing.
Keith Gooden
The elves have left something behind for you.
Matt Sims
Lucky me. So yeah, citrus bug remover. This is made of lemon. So you literally spray this onto those dead flies on the front of your van or your car, and leave it there for a few minutes and just wipe it off, and the lemon does its thing. So there’s no harmful chemicals in this one at all.
Keith Gooden
Elementary, my dear Watson. No, I’m not going to tell that joke.
Matt Sims
Too late. You just did. Yes, there’s a whole range of cleaning chemicals. You can check them out at www.thatleisureshop.com. We’re really proud of them, hence we put our name to them.
Keith Gooden
The most Christmassy one is the luxury body shampoo. It’s not for your body or somebody that you’ve met on the campsite.
Matt Sims
I don’t think you’re going to be making any friends on a campsite. The best bit about these, they’re all £9.99, but you buy two and you get one free. So get three for two.
Keith Gooden
You can get all these for… £50. The whole lot.
Matt Sims
That’s very good maths. Bargain. Maybe there’s a whole bundle deal, I don’t know, but go and have a look at www.thatleisureshop.com. And if you’re thinking of cleaning your own motorhome, caravan or campervan next year, then absolutely invest in this stuff. Worth every penny, I promise.
Keith Gooden
www.thatleisureshop.com/gifts. That’s where you need to be going to.
Alan Rogers’ Campsite of the Month
Matt Sims
It’s time for our Alan Rogers European campsite of the month, and I’m delighted to be joined by Alan. How are you?
Rob Fearn
Yeah, I’m good, Mark. Are you?
Matt Sims
Mark?
Rob Fearn
Well, you keep calling me Alan, so, you know…
Matt Sims
You’ve got his name on your T-shirt still. How are you keeping?
Rob Fearn
I’m good, thank you.
Matt Sims
Nice to see you again, Rob. So Rob, where are we going this week?
Rob Fearn
This week, we’re at Domaine du Logis, which is in Brittany, so you can either go direct to Saint-Malo, and it’s about an hour from there. If you fancy the tunnel then you can go from Calais, and it takes about six hours to get down there.
Matt Sims
I’d be going Saint-Malo. Much easier.
Rob Fearn
Absolutely. 100%.
Matt Sims
But not everyone likes the boat, do they, I suppose?
Rob Fearn
No, I suppose. The reason that we’ve chosen this one this week is because it’s the winner of our dog friendly category in our…
Matt Sims
We’re going to do it – The Caravan and Motorhome Club… I can’t do it. I got it wrong. The Caravan and Motorhome Club Alan Rogers European Council of the Year Awards, 2023!
Rob Fearn
Perfect. Yeah, absolutely. The reason that we gave them that award is it’s really dog friendly. The owners have got both a dog and cat on site, and they’re more than happy for you to walk around if your dog’s well behaved, which might be a problem for some people. If your dog’s well behaved, then you’re welcome to walk around without a lead.
Matt Sims
Oh, the dog on the lead? Well, that’s us out. Reggie will be off. Definitely not in the well behaved category. He’d be running away. So tell us a little bit about the site.
Rob Fearn
So compared to some of the other sites that we’ve discussed, this is quite a moderate size. It’s nowhere near as big as some of the others that we’ve discussed, you know, as we get further south in France.
There are about 70 pitches, and it’s really well set up. They’ve all got an electric hook up. They’ve all got water and they’ve all got drainage. So, you know, people who motorhome or caravan regularly will really appreciate that. The bar is really pleasant. I know you’ll struggle to understand what a pleasant bar is.
Matt Sims
Pleasant?
Rob Fearn
Well, you don’t get beaten up when you go in.
Matt Sims
Not like the one I took you to in Bristol.
Rob Fearn
Absolutely. Yeah, it’s got a really nice oldie worldy ambience, and the staff are all really friendly.
Matt Sims
An oldie worldy ambience – so you fit right in.
Rob Fearn
Thanks very much.
Matt Sims
Sounds great.
Rob Fearn
It’s lovely, actually. Obviously, given its location, there’s one key attraction in the area. That’s obviously Mont Saint-Michel. Have you been there?
Matt Sims
Yes, a few times. Stunning.
Rob Fearn
How was the weather?
Matt Sims
Wet.
Rob Fearn
Yeah, every time I’ve been it’s been super, super windy. Do you know what? I nearly got run over by a nun there once. It was so windy. We were walking down from the top. We couldn’t hear anything because it was so windy. And this nun came hurtling around the corner in a little, I don’t know, a little 2CV or something, and nearly took us out. Terrifying. You’ve got to be on your guard.
Matt Sims
Sounds like some cheap movie.
Rob Fearn
I know. Terrible, isn’t it? You can book the site directly through the Alan Rogers website, or you can book it with the Caravan and Motorhome Club. Shall we do the incredibly complex pricing grid?
Matt Sims
Go on, then. Where are we priced in the Alan Rogers pricing matrix?
Rob Fearn
It’s about mid range campsite. Per night – this is for two people on a pitch – it’s about 35 euros. Obviously that flexes up. You know, that’s sort of a shoulder period price, a little bit less in the lower season, a little bit more in the high season.
Matt Sims
Around 35 euros for a pitch, and that includes two people?
Rob Fearn
Yes.
Matt Sims
Does it include electric hookup and water and everything else?
Rob Fearn
The works.
Matt Sims
Love it. Just tell us again where we are this week.
Rob Fearn
That’s Domaine du Logis.
Matt Sims
Brilliant. If you want to find out more about all of Alan Rogers sites, please head to mhmp.info/alanrogers.
What’s changed with motorhome finance?
Keith Gooden
So in the podcast this week, we’re talking about finance for your pride and joy. Could be a motorhome, could be a car, could be a caravan. It’s been in the courts again, hasn’t it, Matt? Why exactly?
Matt Sims
It’s all about full disclosure of commissions that are paid to an intermediary that’s brokered the finance or the salesperson or the business selling you the product, so them receiving a commission.
Now, it’s really important to note, we’re recording this a week before we release it, so if in the next seven days something changes, we will need to update this episode of the Motorhome Matt podcast. But we are following this very, very closely.
So basically, what happened is the Court of Appeal allowed three appeals by claimants who bought cars from a car dealership where a commission was payable to the credit broker or the dealer, and that commission was not disclosed to the buyer or expressly disclosed.
So many consumer claims in county courts had previously been lost. So people had gone to court to argue the fact they’ve paid a commission, but didn’t realise and didn’t know. So this was a big surprise when the ruling came through, and it came through just a couple of weeks ago.
Keith Gooden
So basically, when you buy something, the courts have now said that if you pay a commission on the deal, you should know exactly how much you’re paying and to whom.
Matt Sims
Exactly that.
Keith Gooden
So you know, it’s no longer as much caveat emptor, buyer beware. What the court has now ruled is that you should be given all the information. Just to boil it down to what the court has said, dealers and brokers owed customers a financial duty of care.
Matt Sims
Yes, stating a commission was payable did not go far enough. So simply saying, “We are going to be paying a commission to this dealer,” was not enough. They wanted full detail. They wanted the exact amount of commission payable and express consent by the customer to agree to the commission should have been required and signed by the customer. So basically, the customer signs a declaration that they are happy that commission is being paid.
Keith Gooden
How much it is and who it’s being paid to. So more information when you’re doing the deal. And the liability on the lender for secret commission, as the Court has expressed, it’s secret commission paid to dealers and brokers.
So basically, what they’re saying is that the customer should be told if a commission is being payable but the customer hasn’t been informed. That’s what they mean by secret. You’re paying your money over, you’re assuming it’s all part of the deal. But the court wants you now to have much more information about commissions.
Matt Sims
They want you to have full visibility and agree to that commission being paid. So this has sent a shock wave through the finance industry. And this is not just about motorhomes or campervans. This is across the motor industry. As I understand, it affects people selling beds on finance as well.
So this is a financial industry blow. Certainly, it’s a reason they need to change how they build their paperwork that you have to sign. So we got our friend Steve in from Creative Funding Solutions.
Steve is a broker and a financial lender, and they are in all sorts of markets, from diggers to cars to horse boxes and, of course, motorhomes and campervans. And I asked Steve for a bit of an update.
Matt Sims
So Steve, thanks again for coming down and visiting us here at the Motorhome Matt podcast. It’s great to have you with us.
Steve Blake
Great to be here again, Matt, and thanks for the intro there. I would just add to that intro, we do actually fund touring caravans and static caravans, not just the motorhomes and campervans! A full suite of products.
Matt Sims
You do indeed. Thanks for pointing that out. Steve, it’s three weeks since the court ruling. Can you tell us – what is the update?
Steve Blake
Most funders that we deal with getting their heads around it now. With the exception of one, I think all are back open, live for business. Now, obviously there’s been a change to terms and conditions and processes on the funders’ end while they’re getting an understanding of this ruling in place, but they’re pretty much there now with the correct documentation.
It clearly has to go through their legal teams to make sure everything’s compliant in light of the recent court ruling, but back open for business. And I think it’s only a matter of time now before this whole process becomesnormalised.
Matt Sims
As I understand it, the key difference then is that as a broker – you broker the finance, so you don’t lend the money from your own bank, as it were. You introduce the customer to the lender and sit as that middle man, and you take a commission for doing that. And I think it’s well accepted.
And I have to say, you do very well communicate that you are charging and are going to receive a commission. I understand you put it in writing and you actually record a telephone conversation with the customer, the borrower, on the fact that you’re getting this commission. But the key thing here that’s gone through the court is that you’ve never declared how much commission in pounds and pence you’re getting. Is that right?
Steve Blake
That’s exactly right. And yes, we do. Every regulated customer gets a phone call saying that we do earn a commission. And I think most of our customers are understanding of that. We’re not the dealer.
We don’t earn the commission from the profit in the motorhome or the car. So that is our entire income stream. I think most customers are cognizant of that, particularly after we’ve spoken to them about it, and it’s clearly in our documentation as well.
But yes, we make very sure that the customer is aware that a commission is payable as part of the process. But according to the ruling, just making the customer aware, be that written or verbal, didn’t go far enough, as you say. It has to be expressly shown in a pounds and pence amount and as a percentage of the amount that they borrowed.
Matt Sims
Presumably how it was calculated as well.
Steve Blake
And how it was calculated as well. So the ruling takes that beyond what the Financial Conduct Authority’s guidance was up until now, which was that there had to be a commission disclosed in terms that a commission would be payable and it needed to be prominent, i.e., not just within the terms and conditions.
We were doing all of that, and any other reputable broker, I would hope, was doing that as well. But obviously I can only talk on behalf of Motorhome.Finance. But that was all deemed not enough. So going forward now, a customer will be signing specifically to say that they understand the amount of commission that is within the finance deal.
Matt Sims
So it’s important here to note that you were compliant with the FCA, the regulatory body, and the rulings imposed on you as a broker, but this has ruled that that wasn’t enough.
Steve Blake
Correct.
Matt Sims
Now, that creates two issues here, does it not? There’s the point in time where the court ruling happened forward. So now, as an industry, you’ll have to declare, yes, there’s a commission, but now it’s declaring how much commission.
Steve Blake
And we’ve got no problem with that. That is correct – going forward, yes.
Matt Sims
But what about the historical stuff? So this reminds me of PPI. People will all be familiar with that. This is going to go to the Supreme Court, and this is the key point that’s going to be debated there and appealed, is the ability for us as consumers to claim back that commission.
That’s your income, that’s how you make a living, that’s how you keep the lights on at home. That pays you your salary. Is there a potential that for the last 20 years, your business has to refund its income back to the consumers?
Steve Blake
We’ll wait and see what the Supreme Court has to say. But worst case scenario, any commission that had been earned by a broker or credit intermediary could need to be repaid to a customer.
Now, of course, the vast, vast majority of credit brokers intermediaries could not withstand such a request, and at that point, I think… the industry is in a difficult spot at that point. Yes, the consumer may be able to claim funds back from the commission that was payable. You’ll have the majority of the broker market potentially folding or exiting the market. It’s unsustainable.
Matt Sims
They’ll just exit stage left.
Steve Blake
Yeah, exit stage left. And funders directly as well may find that the consumer finance space, or the point of sale finance space in general, is just in simple terms too much aggravation. Huge losses that need to be paid back, so much regulation…
If we get to that point, then, on the one hand, yeah, a consumer may be able to claim their commission back, but it’s a massive issue for consumers going forward. It will lead to a lot less consumer choice, 100%. And potentially price increases as well as funders and brokers look to claw back losses. But let’s wait and see what happens.
Matt Sims
It’s important to say we’re not at that point yet, are we?
Steve Blake
We’re not at that point yet. There is a wide expectation that the case will be fast tracked through the Supreme Court. Now, what fast track looks like we as yet don’t know. Certainly, I think months at best, maybe a year, but that is just an opinion, as opposed to anything we know at this stage.
As we sit here today now, funders going forward, following the new process of full commission disclosure, what happens to that legacy, many, many years of transacted deals… we’ll wait and see. But you likened it to PPI. This would be PPI on steroids, if it came to came to pass.
Matt Sims
Because this is not just about motorhomes, campervans or caravans. This is about beds, sofas – presumably, any consumer finance.
Steve Blake
Potentially, the ruling goes even further than that. It’s suggesting point of sale finance, full stop. So Creative, Motorhome.Finance now, just to be very clear, has taken the view that the ruling – and I think it’s quite widely accepted – incorporates non-regulated business as well. So if you funded through a limited company.
Matt Sims
Yes, we do.
Steve Blake
Yeah, that also is within this jurisdiction. So we are now disclosing full commission on every single transaction that we make.
Matt Sims
So this is also then… non-regulated, for those listening and don’t understand what that is, it’s a limited company borrowing money. You don’t have the same protection as a consumer, buying a car for your own use. So for me, through the business, we fund motorhomes, which we funded with you in the past. But this then goes into plant, machinery, gosh, some busses, lorries…
Steve Blake
Vehicle asset finance and other types.
Matt Sims
There is a huge amount of pressure on the Supreme Court.
Steve Blake
There certainly is. The way the Court of Appeal ruling was worded at the end, I think, suggested that potentially, this was a case that was ripe to go to the Supreme Court. Whether the judge knew the level of turmoil that would be created off the back of it, I don’t know. But as it stands now, going forward, we’ve got a level of normality again. But time will tell on the tens of thousands, if not more, of legacy agreements.
Matt Sims
Absolutely. Steve, I just want you to just share with us, what are the benefits of people using a broker for their motorhome, caravan, static caravan finance, rather than going direct to a big bank, the big lender themselves? Tell us, why should people consider coming to you as a broker?
Steve Blake
Lots of reasons, I would suggest – one of them being choice. So we have a panel of many, many funders that we deal with, both regulated funders with extended term finance, which is obviously a very popular thing in the leisure vehicle space. We’ve also got a huge number of non-regulated limited company finance options as well for customers.
So choice, I would say, is definitely a key part. Personal service I think is a big part of it as well. We talk the customer through the various options. We give in life support of the agreement as well. Early settlements. We talk customers witharound the various options they have there. And we work with many, many motorhome caravan and campervan dealers.
We actually get quite a lot of customers that come to us and say, “I’d like to get approved on finance for X amount. I’m looking for this type of vehicle. Do you have any recommendations?” So we can put customers in contact with dealers that we work with and help them find that vehicle as well. It’s all about understanding the customer and coming up with a full suite of products and a personable approach.
Matt Sims
In my own experience, it is about a different level of customer service from your team. Nicola and the team, they’re just amazing. So helpful, and it’s a different level and style of service to going direct to a lender, in my own experience.
Steve Blake
I would agree. And another thing I would say there is that we service many customers who have slightly trickier credit profiles, should we say, for whatever reason, and that’s the type of customer you really need to get under the skin of and understand why there maybe have been one or two issues.
You know, go to any of the main banks and it literally will be the computer saying yes or no. But it’s a customer like that where you need to get a bit of a fuller picture, and then present that to the funder to get hopefully the right answer for the customer. You won’t get that level of service from a major bank.
Matt Sims
The guys at Creative are Motorhome Matt Approved. It’s brilliant to have you on the Motorhome Matt Approved directory. And I commend them to you. If you’re looking for finance, whether you’re that person with some tricky credit history and you need some help to fund your next motorhome, then you definitely need to give Steve and Nicola and the team a ring at Creative Finance. Tell me, Steve, where do people find out more about your business?
Steve Blake
They can go to our website, which is www.motorhome.finance. All our details are on there. My email and mobile number’s on there. There’s the Motorhome Matt section at the top on the banner. Click on that and you’ll get some more information around the Approved relationship that we have with yourself. And yes, they can work out an indicative quote and see what we’ve got to offer.
Keith Gooden
That’s Steve Blake. He’s the sales manager at Creative Funding Solutions. I understand the upshot to all this, Matt, is that the finance industry is going back looking at their terms and conditions. So deals are being done.
Matt Sims
That’s right, yes. For a few days, there was a time – certainly a day – where there was no lending able to happen. We had a finance application going through, and it was frozen overnight whilst this was kind of worked out.
I have to say, Close Brothers were very quick to respond, and decided that they would create a page that the customer would sign, which would declare the commission being paid to them as a dealer, and tell the customer how much, and they would have to sign it to accept it and acknowledge it, and they were very quick to do that.
But other financial institutions, you can imagine they’re big corporate environments. This change has to go up and down the floors of several buildings before they can actually produce something that is part of their T’s and C’s. So it has been a shockwave through the industry, for sure.
Keith Gooden
So, Matt, you’re selling motorhomes. Do you have first hand experience of this?
Matt Sims
Absolutely. I mean, finance has been around on motorhomes for a long time. We call it penetration of finance in the market. Ours is really low. So traditionally, someone buying a motorhome has got a pension payout, they’ve sold a house, or they’ve got a lump of money, a nest egg of some sort that they’re using.
So our finance penetration is actually quite low as a business, but we’re seeing that change. And motor finance is becoming increasingly the only way tomotorhome ownership because the screen price is so high.
And you know, for many people, they’ve got £40,000, but the screen price is now double that. It’s £80,000 and so they need to borrow. So I think we’re going to see more and more motor finance deals being done on motorhomes and camper vans, simply because of that affordability bit. You know, the ability to have enough cash to buy it outright is being taken away.
And actually there are some real benefits to putting finance on a motorhome, because it gives you more rights. If there’s a problem with it and you want to return it, then the finance company will work on your side to help you with that.
Keith Gooden
The courts have ruled that the customer should have more information. So up until the last few weeks, when you’ve been buying a car or a motorhome or whatever, anything on finance, as Matt has said… we’ve had this relationship with the seller, which is that we know a commission is being paid. We don’t know how much it is, but it’s not been part of the discussion.
It’s whether we’re happy with the price we’re paying, we’re happy with the interest on the finance deal. But I suppose now this commission becomes part of the negotiation, doesn’t it, whereas before it was just being paid. Now the customer is going to say, “Well, you should have your commission on that, and then I’ll buy.”
Matt Sims
Well, they may do. And of course, the negotiation in the past has been the screen price. So, you know, buying a car from a dealer or motorhome from a dealer, they’ll chip the screen price by £1,000 pounds, knowing that because you’ve said, “I’m taking finance,” that they’re going to get a commission, and they’ll be able to offset that, and they’ll be back where they need to be on the bottom line.
Asking for, you know, a tank of fuel or a set of mats or £500 worth of accessories to go in the motorhome is a real cost. A dealer may not always be as keen to do that, because they’re out of pocket.
Keith Gooden
It’s coming out of their bottom line.
Matt Sims
Absolutely. And they might come have a different budget. So it’s a different budget within the business. But when you’re negotiating a screen price and finance is being taken, you know you’ve got a commission you can play with which is going to offset that discount. And before this point, that was not always visible or even declared to the buyer that that was happening.
And that’s what this judge has ruled in favor of, that you should declare, “I am going to receive £1,000 of commission,” or whatever the number is. Also how it’s worked out. So the more finance you take, the more you borrow, the bigger the commission. So when you go and buy a car, I think it’s quite accepted practice, isn’t it? As consumers, we know that the more finance we take, the more commission the car salesman is going to take.
Keith Gooden
But we don’t know how much it is.
Matt Sims
No, and we kind of ignore it. We just say, “Oh yeah, they’re getting a commission. That’s fine.” Well actually, that can be a deal changer for them. And they’re quite happy knocking two grand off the screen price because they’re going to make it back in commissions.
And they hit their target that way. And it’s a motivator. In big car sales places, these car supermarket type businesses, the salesmen are targeted on finance to hit a number every week and every month on borrowed money so the dealership gets that commission. That’s a big income stream for the dealer, and one that as consumers, we’d sort of ignore. Not anymore.
Keith Gooden
No. We have done the bit of a dance with that as well, because sometimes when you go along, even if you’ve got the lump sum to pay on, say, something like a car, you’ll always do the deal on finance then pay it off some months later, because you know you’re going to get a better deal because, as you say, the sales executive selling it to you is on a commission.
As part of that commission you’re paying the company, and it changes everything. But isn’t more information for the consumer just a good thing? Or have we now reached a situation where that little bit of bunce for the seller – and you’ve sold motorhomes – is now out of the question, and just the screen price is going to go up, and they’re just going to say, “No, sorry, that’s the price. Take it or leave it.”
Matt Sims
If that happens in the marketplace, in the industry, that’s going to happen everywhere. So as a consumer, it won’t matter where you go. You’re only going to be focused on the screen price, and that’s all the dealer is going to be focused on as well.
So they’ll be far more reticent to knock a grand off the screen price or whatever the number is they’re going to discount it by. I think dealers have the opportunity, or resellers, to become more innovative.
And here we list a motorhome at a price. It’s listed at a price to sell at ideally that price. We don’t put it up for £50,000 and say, “Oh, let’s take £48,000.” We want £50,000 for it. But what we will do – people love a discount. They love to feel they’re getting a deal, and if it’s necessary to knock a bit off, and we can, we will.
But what we’ll then do is say, “Well, is this your first motorhome?” “Well, we’ve come from a caravan.” “Right. So there’s some bits and pieces you are going to need to make this work for you. And let’s save you buying that, and let’s build that into the deal instead.”
So we might add in a hookup cable that they don’t have. You know, they sold it with the caravan. Leveling ramps for a motorhome, for example. You know, those bits and bobs you need, especially if it’s your first one.
Then we might build that into the deal instead of giving a discount. And the consumer is still saving money, and they’re still getting a deal, and actually, we’re adding value to it. So I think there’s an opportunity here for us as a business and an industry to innovate.
The challenge for brokers, as Steve was saying, is they have to innovate even harder to justify why they exist, because what is to stop you just going direct and shopping around and buying the cheapest deal?
Well, it’s all about aftercare and having that person to ring up if you want to pay it off early or you’re having a problem. That’s when the broker will step in and have your back, and they’ll be looking out for you and liaising on your behalf with the lender, who, let’s face it, often, is pretty faceless.
Keith Gooden
So stay tuned to the Motorhome Matt podcast on YouTube and on audio, and we will update you as updates come in. I must say, as with all legal processes, there is usually a position where you can appeal a ruling, and both lenders involved in these three cases have expressed appeal intentions to go to the Supreme Court.
It used to be the Law Lords. Now it’s the Supreme Court. That is the last decision making body. What they decide is going to be the law, and you can’t go any further. The Supreme Court have got to decide whether they’re going to hear the appeal, and so we’ll keep you updated on that. But if it does go to the Supreme Court, then this could change.
Or they could just say, “Nope, it’s the law from now on.” But make sure you stay tuned to the Motorhome Matt podcast, because we will be giving you that information and breaking it down into easy, digestible lumps!
Matt Sims
That’s it, and also how the market responds to this, because we get so confused between flat rate and API. It’s all very confusing. The FCA regulated this, and they’ll be re-regulating it, for sure. So we will be following closely, and we’ll try and unpack it and explain it so it makes sense to you, if you are looking to take finance on your next motorhome.
Audience Q&A
Keith Gooden
It’s the Motorhome Matt podcast. I’m Keith Gooden.
Matt Sims
And I’m Motorhome Matt.
Keith Gooden
It is brought to you with www.thatleisureshop.com. It’s our question and answer section, the Q and A – our favourite bit of all the podcast, because we get to hear from you. First of all, John Miller-Wilson is in the West Country.
John Miller-Wilson
I own a 2018 Swift Rio motorhome. My question is regarding trackers. We’ve shortly got the renewal for the inbuilt Swift based tracker. Should I renew with the Swift tracker, or should I install a proprietary tracker?
My thoughts – it may be the case that thieves have now worked out how to overcome them. So should I renew or should I go and buy a proprietary tracker? And if so, which one would you recommend?
Keith Gooden
Okay, Matt, which would you recommend?
Matt Sims
Great question. So have thieves worked out how to break into a Swift? I’ve no idea. I really don’t know. I mean, arguably, you could say that of any tracker. The first thing I’d be doing is actually checking, is it a 2G tracker or 4G tracker?
So our recent episode on this revealed that the 2G network is being switched off over the coming years. So if it’s a 2G tracker, it’s going to stop working. It will already not work in parts of Europe because they’ve turned their 2G network off already. So be mindful of that.
Me, personally, once I’ve checked that, I would then make a decision as to whether I’m going to buy a proprietary one, as you put it. I would be looking at brands like GPSBob. They’re a fantastic company with a brilliant offering, very, very good value, and they’re kind of turning the tracking industry upside down when it comes to pricing. And they do offer a 4G solution.
There are lots of companies out there. There are brands like Global Telemetrics and Moving intelligence, but I favor GPSBob, have to say. And of course, they are Motorhome Matt Approved. You can find out more about them at Motorhome Matt Approved.
Just go to mhmp.info/GPSBob, and you’ll find details there. And there’s a Motorhome Matt discount code too, so make sure you use that. So it’s a great question to ask. Arguably, renewing your Swift tracker is going to be dead easy because it’s already installed.
You said it’s a 2018 motorhome, and just pay the subscription. But do check, is it a 2G tracker or a 4G? I would definitely be erring toward a 4G unit, especially if you’re going to buy something like a three or five year subscription.
Keith Gooden
If you’re a new listener or viewer to the podcast, Motorhom Matt Approved is a list of goods and services that Matt is putting his name behind. So do go there. Do check it out, because you can depend on the quality of the products or services that you’re seeing.
Keith Gooden
Okay. Next question comes from Michael Harris.
Michael Harris
Hi, Matt. I’m a real fan of your show, and watch it on YouTube. My question is about rear view cameras on a motorhome. I’ve just got my fifth motorhome, and at last, got the perfect layout for me, but it came without a reversing camera.
A very expensive option is to get a dealer to fit one wired in, or I could buy a Wi-Fi, or wireless rather, camera and fit it myself. I would think it’s only a couple of cables to the relay for a tow bar, which most motorhomes have anyway. I would appreciate your feedback on that. Thank you.
Keith Gooden
Ok, Matt, DIY or pro fitting of a rear view camera?
Matt Sims
So the first thing is, it’s bit more complicated than just wiring up a couple of wires. You’ve got to install the camera, screw it to the body work. You’ve got to fit a camera either to your rear view mirror, run the cable all the way around the windscreen, down into the dashboard, where you need to find a live.
If you’re going to go for the process where the camera comes on when you put it in reverse, you need to either wire to the reverse switch on the gearbox or to the rear view lights. Now, if you’re going for a wireless camera, that means running a wire from the back of the van to the front, which is not necessarily that difficult.
You can run underneath and then up into the engine bay and into the dashboard. It is quite an install to do. I have done it myself. I personally favour a wired camera because they’re much more reliable. The cameras, in my experience, are the component that fails, although the screens can too. You can just replace either bit.
With a wireless setup, I think it’s very subjective as to whether it’ll work all the time. I’ve used them, and they are very successful, but I would always be worried that the connection is going to break. Handy to have a camera on the back of a caravan. That’s great to have a wireless one then, but I would say, get an auto electrician to install it, because that’s probably all the motorhome dealer is going to do.
So cut out the middle man and contact a local reputable auto electrician and get them to install it. That would be the cheapest way and the most effective way to do it. And go wired, would be my advice.
Keith Gooden
And how much are we looking at, roughly?
Matt Sims
Probably a few hundred pounds supplied and installed.
Keith Gooden
So that’s including the gear?
Matt Sims
You can buy a camera kit for £400, probably. You don’t need to do that. We sell them in the shop for less than £100.
Keith Gooden
Okay, and are there any insurance implications for fitting it?
Matt Sims
That’s a very good point. If you have a rear view camera, it’s definitely worth telling your insurer that you’ve got one, because obviously, when you’re going backwards, you’ve got much better visibility, and that may be a reason for them to offer you an incentive by virtue of a discount on your premium. Who knows? But it’s certainly worth pointing out.
Keith Gooden
Andy Rudden’s in Glasgow. He says he’s got a quick question. “How would a dealer treat you if you bought a motorhome for cash and didn’t use their financial services?”
Matt Sims
That’s a great question, one we’ve tapped on earlier today. I would suggest buying outright is fine. You’re doing what we call in the trade a straight deal or a cash deal. Obviously, it’s not pound notes coming across the desk. It’s a bank transfer. There are rules around that.
But I would suggest if you are considering finance, a dealer will be more incentivised to reduce the screen price, because, as we now know, they are likely to be earning a commission. But it depends how the dealer does the finance for you.
So if the dealer is referring you to a broker, they are probably not going to get any recompense from the broker. The broker is going to keep all of the commission, so there may not be any incentive for the dealer.
So it’s worth asking the dealership, how are you doing finance? Many dealerships in the motorhome world are tied to Black Horse because Black Horse are the credit line for their stock. So they’re having all this brand new motorhome stock arriving, and it’s sitting on a Black Horse credit line. And the more finance that they sell to you, the customer, the bigger that credit line becomes.
So they’re incentivised that way, and they will get a commission, either in the form of an actual payout or a growth in their credit facility with Black Horse. So it’s worth asking the dealer. How are they working with a lender? Is it just straight via broker?
Then there’s probably no benefit to them. If it’s direct to a lender, they are going to get a commission. So it’s worth negotiating in with that. And as we now know, we’re going to be told what commissions are being received.
Keith Gooden
As the court case has just said, you need to be told all the information about the commissions and how much is being paid over to what – how much you’re paying.
Matt Sims
The other benefit of taking motorhome finance is if you’re buying a motorhome and it goes wrong down the line and you want to reject it, and you’ve got good grounds to reject it, having finance on it means the lender will step in on your behalf, because they actually own a chunk of that vehicle.
And they will step in and liaise with the dealer on it being repaired, or if you had to return and reject it, so they would be on your side. But of course, it carries a cost, because you’re going to pay interest for having that motorhome finance.
But if I bought a new motorhome, I’ve always taken finance on it, and there have been in the past, over the last 20 years, brilliant deals around on finance. Less so at the moment, I have to say, as interest rates have gone back up.
But still it’s not expensive. So it gives you peace of mind, and of course, you’re not tying up all your money in that motorhome. But when you sell it, of course, you owe some money back to the lender if you’ve not paid off the finance.
Keith Gooden
It’s like having a mortgage on your house, isn’t it? It’s much better to spend somebody else’s money than your own, even if you got it in the bank. But is it worth buying it on the finance and then paying it off if you’ve got the cash six months, 12 months down the road in order to avoid interest payments, which a lot can do? There’s usually a penalty, and I assume that’s going to be partly commission, but I’ve done that in the past.
Matt Sims
So if it’s a regulated agreement, so you’re buying it as a consumer, so a man on the street, you’re regulated by the FCA. The penalty is really limited to a month or possibly three months’ interest. That’s it. But it’s a regulated agreement, so there is not a massive penalty.
If it’s non reg, so you’ve bought it through a limited company because you have one that you can put it through, and your accountant’s approved it or your motorhome hire business, it’s a non reg agreement. You are going to be paying off all of the money that you borrowed. So we have non reg agreements here, at Motorhome Holiday Company.
And some of our fleet, which we own, is financed. We’ve got one here at the moment. To sell it, it’s going to cost us £50,000. The van is now actually worth just shy of £50,000. So we will run that for another year, pay some more the finance off, so when we sell it, we’re not in a loss position. And that’s something to be very mindful of.
If it’s a non reg agreement that you’ve signed, you can catch a real cold. But if it’s a regulated agreement, you could take finance, negotiate the deal with a dealer on the basis they’re getting a commission, and then cancel the finance, and the dealer is going to have that commission taken back off them.
Keith Gooden
So that’s who loses out.
Matt Sims
That’s who loses out. The dealer is going to lose that commission. And you can ask the dealer and say, “Well, if I cancel this, when I cancel, do you not lose the commission?” And you could be kind to them. They say, “Six months.” So in month seven, cancel it. They keep their commission, and you’ve paid off the finance. But it does vary from lender to lender, so be mindful of that.
Keith Gooden
Thanks, Andy, thanks for all the questions this week.
Ask Matt
Keith Gooden
If you want to get in touch, what should you do, Matt?
Matt Sims
Please do. Just head to mhmp.info/askmatt. We would love to hear from you. So if you’ve got a question, click the orange button there and record it. Please tell us where in the world you are, as we love to know. And if you’re too shy to record it, just fill in the form, and Keith and I will read it out for you.
Keith Gooden
We’ve got a huge backlog of questions, so we do apologise if yours hasn’t turned up yet. If it’s technically possible to put it in the podcast, if you’ve recorded it, we will. But you also do reply to all the questions.
Matt Sims
I do try, yeah, and if we’ve not had a reply to your question, please ask it again and say I’m asking this a second time because I’m desperate for an answer, and I promise I will come back to you. So yes, if you don’t hear it on the podcast, I am trying to answer them all.
Keith Gooden
And if you’re looking for trusted brands and services, then make sure you visit the Motorhome Matt Approved directory. It’s at mhmp.info/approve.
Matt Sims
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